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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: Laura, I could ask you where you get your information, but I already know- mainstream American me...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

Laura, I could ask you where you get your information, but I already know- mainstream American media, sanitized for your protection. One of my sources is Haaretz- an Israeli publication and website. It is far more open regarding the conflict and criticizes it's own country when appropriate, as any media institution should have the freedom to do.

I posted this merely to point out that the Vatican is on the right side of promoting a peaceful solution to the neverending Middle East conflict. The UN vote for a non voting participation by the Palestinian Authority was 138 countries in favor to 9 opposed. It doesn't mean anyone is going to "push Israel into the sea." My intention was not to get dragged into another discussion on the conflict which no one can win. We've thrown the best diplomats we can find at the problem and they've all thrown in the towel, so we're not going to solve it here.

--hide--



Peter, not sure why you are defensive to me. boggled I didn't state any information, also I have never been in any discussions in these forums on this issue. Usually people post a topic for some type of dialog with others. Sorry I asked a simple question. FYI I do not listen to MSM, don't even have cable tv. So, your presumption that you already know where I get my info(even though I didn't even state any) is wrong, so I am willing to share where I get some of the things I do know.
My brother-in-law was born in Palestine. His family moved to Jordan. He has a very large Muslim family and they share businesses in that country. They have a home there, also. He has dual citizenship and came here for his doctorate in medicine 30 years ago, but his loyalties are for his "other" country.
He took my sister and their daughter to Beirut in May 2008. They awoke to the airport being bombed by Hezbollah. They barely got out at the border to Syria because my sister was American. They were able to get a car and drive the Road to Damascus through Syria into Jordan. He still takes her over there. Last year they went to Turkey and Syria on vacation. As you see I do have a little glimpse into life over there. I will tell you that any Muslim Arabic HATE HATE HATE the Jews and they feel they have no right to be on this earth. The Jews have a little spot of land to call their own in this whole world and the Muslims want them wiped off it. Look at a map, look at what belongs to the Arabics and then look at what belongs to the Jews. The Muslims have consumed all of our holy places. My sister has shown me pictures of beautiful statues, churches etc. Their wars between themselves (the Muslims) have destroyed most of our wonderful Christian heritage. That land was where the apostles spread the word of Christ and we aren't allowed on most of it. I really don't know what your views are. Like I said I haven't read any posts on this. All I can say is I have never heard a Jew say he wants to wipe out the Arabics, but boy I sure hear how the Arabics want to get rid of the Jews. My view is that we are all from the same seed and I certainly pray for peace. I'll check out your site. Thanks for the post from the Vatican, they certainly should be involved, it is our Christian heritage being destroyed.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: Peter, not sure why you are defensive to me. I didn't state any information, also ...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:




Peter, not sure why you are defensive to me. I didn't state any information, also I have never been in any discussions in these forums on this issue. Usually people post a topic for some type of dialog with others. Sorry I asked a simple question. FYI I do not listen to MSM, don't even have cable tv. So, your presumption that you already know where I get my info(even though I didn't even state any) is wrong, so I am willing to share where I get some of the things I do know.
My brother-in-law was born in Palestine. His family moved to Jordan. He has a very large Muslim family and they share businesses in that country. They have a home there, also. He has dual citizenship and came here for his doctorate in medicine 30 years ago, but his loyalties are for his "other" country.
He took my sister and their daughter to Beirut in May 2008. They awoke to the airport being bombed by Hezbollah. They barely got out at the border to Syria because my sister was American. They were able to get a car and drive the Road to Damascus through Syria into Jordan. He still takes her over there. Last year they went to Turkey and Syria on vacation. As you see I do have a little glimpse into life over there. I will tell you that any Muslim Arabic HATE HATE HATE the Jews and they feel they have no right to be on this earth. The Jews have a little spot of land to call their own in this whole world and the Muslims want them wiped off it. Look at a map, look at what belongs to the Arabics and then look at what belongs to the Jews. The Muslims have consumed all of our holy places. My sister has shown me pictures of beautiful statues, churches etc. Their wars between themselves (the Muslims) have destroyed most of our wonderful Christian heritage. That land was where the apostles spread the word of Christ and we aren't allowed on most of it. I really don't know what your views are. Like I said I haven't read any posts on this. All I can say is I have never heard a Jew say he wants to wipe out the Arabics, but boy I sure hear how the Arabics want to get rid of the Jews. My view is that we are all from the same seed and I certainly pray for peace. I'll check out your site. Thanks for the post from the Vatican, they certainly should be involved, it is our Christian heritage being destroyed.

--hide--
I apologize for being so defensive, but I have been attacked viciously on other political threads here, called an anti-Semite and a traitor to my country because I point out how some American politicians put the interests of Israel ahead of those of the United States. Are they not sworn to defend and protect their own country? Some Catholics get Christian Zionism confused with their own Christianity. I think it's important to separate the radical nationalist movement called Zionism from Judaism itself. Zionism is the root cause of all the hate and discontent since the founding of Israel in 1948. Their ultimate goal is a "Greater Israel," encompassing what is now called the West Bank (Biblical Judea and Samaria), and all of Jerusalem. There will be no Palestinian territories- they will all become refugees. The ongoing "annexation" of Palestinian land which has been in their families since at least the Ottoman Empire is the major point of contention with both the American and Palestinian negotiators. Israel continues to defy the US, the UN and the rest of the civilized world. They have chosen their current status as a pariah state, and because of massive American aid could care less. We helped create this monster, and only we can tame it to the point where it can be welcomed into the family of nations.

I have a Palestinian Christian friend who escaped with his family to the US after the 1967 war. He did not leave because of Muslim persecution, he left because the Israelis took his land. They do not differentiate between Christians and Muslims. Their "democracy" does not allow for any other faiths, only Judaism. They just want them all gone. The Churches in Bethlehem will be come tourist attractions in the not too distant future, because the Palestinian Christian population will be gone.

A Palestinian state will be a step toward a more peaceful Middle East- the Vatican and 138 other countries agree. The nine countries who voted against upgrading Palestine's status were Canada, the Czech Republic, Israel, the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama and the U.S. Outside of the US, Canada, Israel and the Czech Republic, you can bet the remaining countries didn't make their decision of their own free will.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: Peter, not sure why you are defensive to me. I didn't state any information, also ...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:




Peter, not sure why you are defensive to me. I didn't state any information, also I have never been in any discussions in these forums on this issue. Usually people post a topic for some type of dialog with others. Sorry I asked a simple question. FYI I do not listen to MSM, don't even have cable tv. So, your presumption that you already know where I get my info(even though I didn't even state any) is wrong, so I am willing to share where I get some of the things I do know.
My brother-in-law was born in Palestine. His family moved to Jordan. He has a very large Muslim family and they share businesses in that country. They have a home there, also. He has dual citizenship and came here for his doctorate in medicine 30 years ago, but his loyalties are for his "other" country.
He took my sister and their daughter to Beirut in May 2008. They awoke to the airport being bombed by Hezbollah. They barely got out at the border to Syria because my sister was American. They were able to get a car and drive the Road to Damascus through Syria into Jordan. He still takes her over there. Last year they went to Turkey and Syria on vacation. As you see I do have a little glimpse into life over there. I will tell you that any Muslim Arabic HATE HATE HATE the Jews and they feel they have no right to be on this earth. The Jews have a little spot of land to call their own in this whole world and the Muslims want them wiped off it. Look at a map, look at what belongs to the Arabics and then look at what belongs to the Jews. The Muslims have consumed all of our holy places. My sister has shown me pictures of beautiful statues, churches etc. Their wars between themselves (the Muslims) have destroyed most of our wonderful Christian heritage. That land was where the apostles spread the word of Christ and we aren't allowed on most of it. I really don't know what your views are. Like I said I haven't read any posts on this. All I can say is I have never heard a Jew say he wants to wipe out the Arabics, but boy I sure hear how the Arabics want to get rid of the Jews. My view is that we are all from the same seed and I certainly pray for peace. I'll check out your site. Thanks for the post from the Vatican, they certainly should be involved, it is our Christian heritage being destroyed.

--hide--


Thank you, Laura. I agree with your observations and opinions, and appreciate you sharing the story of your sister's family.


- Elizabeth

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I apologize for being so defensive, but I have been attacked viciously on other political threads...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I apologize for being so defensive, but I have been attacked viciously on other political threads here, called an anti-Semite and a traitor to my country because I point out how some American politicians put the interests of Israel ahead of those of the United States. Are they not sworn to defend and protect their own country? Some Catholics get Christian Zionism confused with their own Christianity. I think it's important to separate the radical nationalist movement called Zionism from Judaism itself. Zionism is the root cause of all the hate and discontent since the founding of Israel in 1948. Their ultimate goal is a "Greater Israel," encompassing what is now called the West Bank (Biblical Judea and Samaria), and all of Jerusalem. There will be no Palestinian territories- they will all become refugees. The ongoing "annexation" of Palestinian land which has been in their families since at least the Ottoman Empire is the major point of contention with both the American and Palestinian negotiators. Israel continues to defy the US, the UN and the rest of the civilized world. They have chosen their current status as a pariah state, and because of massive American aid could care less. We helped create this monster, and only we can tame it to the point where it can be welcomed into the family of nations.

I have a Palestinian Christian friend who escaped with his family to the US after the 1967 war. He did not leave because of Muslim persecution, he left because the Israelis took his land. They do not differentiate between Christians and Muslims. Their "democracy" does not allow for any other faiths, only Judaism. They just want them all gone. The Churches in Bethlehem will be come tourist attractions in the not too distant future, because the Palestinian Christian population will be gone.

A Palestinian state will be a step toward a more peaceful Middle East- the Vatican and 138 other countries agree. The nine countries who voted against upgrading Palestine's status were Canada, the Czech Republic, Israel, the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama and the U.S. Outside of the US, Canada, Israel and the Czech Republic, you can bet the remaining countries didn't make their decision of their own free will.

--hide--

There is no reason to believe that a Palestinian state will be a step towards a more peaceful Middle East; too many countries in the region highly value the Israeli-Arab conflict. It gives them a convenient scapegoat to blame all their problems on and to distract attention away from domestic problems.

The whole conflict has been deliberately kept alive by the Arab nations. They deliberately encourage and supply terrorist activity. The displaced Arab populations could have been absorbed by the neighboring countries just what happened when Pakistan and India split, or what happened with the Jews displaced during the conflict. However, the dictators of the region find that it suits their purpose better to have those people in miserable refugee camps.

This isn't to say that Israel has always and everywhere acted above reproach. But the notion that it is only one side that is responsible is fantasy.

The only difference between the folks who want to say the root cause of all the hate is anti-Semitism and those who want to say the root cause of all the hate is Zionism is which half of the truth they militantly ignore.

You do make some valid points, but you also steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that there are two sides to this story.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: There is no reason to believe that a Palestinian state will be a step towards a more peac...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

There is no reason to believe that a Palestinian state will be a step towards a more peaceful Middle East; too many countries in the region highly value the Israeli-Arab conflict. It gives them a convenient scapegoat to blame all their problems on and to distract attention away from domestic problems.

The whole conflict has been deliberately kept alive by the Arab nations. They deliberately encourage and supply terrorist activity. The displaced Arab populations could have been absorbed by the neighboring countries just what happened when Pakistan and India split, or what happened with the Jews displaced during the conflict. However, the dictators of the region find that it suits their purpose better to have those people in miserable refugee camps.

This isn't to say that Israel has always and everywhere acted above reproach. But the notion that it is only one side that is responsible is fantasy.

The only difference between the folks who want to say the root cause of all the hate is anti-Semitism and those who want to say the root cause of all the hate is Zionism is which half of the truth they militantly ignore.

You do make some valid points, but you also steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that there are two sides to this story.

--hide--
You are absolutely right John, there are two sides to this ugly chapter in world history. The problem: No one told the American government, especially the US Congress, sometimes sarcastically referred to as Israeli occupied territory. You perhaps recall Netanyahu addressing a joint session of Congress last year, and their embarrassing fawning over him. No US elected official speaks for those under permanent military occupation. The few that dare to wait until they are no longer in office. With few exceptions, our media ME reporting is Israeli-centric, leaving us with a one sided view. I am not blind to Islamic extremism by any means, but there is much blindness to the terrorism of ultra-orthodox extremists in the occupied territories (recognized as terrorism by the Israeli government).

If it wasn't for American involvement, I wouldn't care a whit about the Middle East. Whether we like it or not we have a dog in this fight- we could very well be drawn into their next war.

I do appreciate your well balanced and insightful comments. I won't post any further on this subject- I may be a lot of things, but a masochist is not among them! Dove theheart

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: I apologize for being so defensive, but I have been attacked viciously on other political threads...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

I apologize for being so defensive, but I have been attacked viciously on other political threads here, called an anti-Semite and a traitor to my country because I point out how some American politicians put the interests of Israel ahead of those of the United States. Are they not sworn to defend and protect their own country? Some Catholics get Christian Zionism confused with their own Christianity. I think it's important to separate the radical nationalist movement called Zionism from Judaism itself. Zionism is the root cause of all the hate and discontent since the founding of Israel in 1948. Their ultimate goal is a "Greater Israel," encompassing what is now called the West Bank (Biblical Judea and Samaria), and all of Jerusalem. There will be no Palestinian territories- they will all become refugees. The ongoing "annexation" of Palestinian land which has been in their families since at least the Ottoman Empire is the major point of contention with both the American and Palestinian negotiators. Israel continues to defy the US, the UN and the rest of the civilized world. They have chosen their current status as a pariah state, and because of massive American aid could care less. We helped create this monster, and only we can tame it to the point where it can be welcomed into the family of nations.

I have a Palestinian Christian friend who escaped with his family to the US after the 1967 war. He did not leave because of Muslim persecution, he left because the Israelis took his land. They do not differentiate between Christians and Muslims. Their "democracy" does not allow for any other faiths, only Judaism. They just want them all gone. The Churches in Bethlehem will be come tourist attractions in the not too distant future, because the Palestinian Christian population will be gone.

A Palestinian state will be a step toward a more peaceful Middle East- the Vatican and 138 other countries agree. The nine countries who voted against upgrading Palestine's status were Canada, the Czech Republic, Israel, the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama and the U.S. Outside of the US, Canada, Israel and the Czech Republic, you can bet the remaining countries didn't make their decision of their own free will.

--hide--


Apology accepted hug Thank you for your explanation. Please research Jewish history and realize that they are the most discriminated people throughout history. They are fighting for a speck of land to call there own, which was theirs to begin with. I agree fanaticism doesn't help, but you do have to agree the PLO far exceed them on that. Praying for peace for all people.

Dec 3rd 2012 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: You are absolutely right John, there are two sides to this ugly chapter in world history. The pro...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

You are absolutely right John, there are two sides to this ugly chapter in world history. The problem: No one told the American government, especially the US Congress, sometimes sarcastically referred to as Israeli occupied territory. You perhaps recall Netanyahu addressing a joint session of Congress last year, and their embarrassing fawning over him. No US elected official speaks for those under permanent military occupation. The few that dare to wait until they are no longer in office. With few exceptions, our media ME reporting is Israeli-centric, leaving us with a one sided view. I am not blind to Islamic extremism by any means, but there is much blindness to the terrorism of ultra-orthodox extremists in the occupied territories (recognized as terrorism by the Israeli government).

If it wasn't for American involvement, I wouldn't care a whit about the Middle East. Whether we like it or not we have a dog in this fight- we could very well be drawn into their next war.

I do appreciate your well balanced and insightful comments. I won't post any further on this subject- I may be a lot of things, but a masochist is not among them!

--hide--

I don't think the solution is for you to not post any further on the subject- there aren't too many who will go out of their way to broadcast the non-Israeli point of view around here (a fact you well know). Just temper the approach.

Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: I don't think the solution is for you to not post any further on the subject- there a...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

I don't think the solution is for you to not post any further on the subject- there aren't too many who will go out of their way to broadcast the non-Israeli point of view around here (a fact you well know). Just temper the approach.

--hide--
Thank you John, I appreciate that~ I'll try to tone it down a few notches. It is frustrating that our Congress sees only one side, perhaps because it's easier to get reelected:

www.councilforthenationalinterest.org

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