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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Jewish Influence

12/03/2012 new

Hey all,

So for the past year or so I have attended (on and off...quite a drive) a Maronite church and the parish is just amazing. It's much more of a community than I am used to in Roman rite. A few of the parishoners have reached out to me to teach me about the traditions of the Maronites. They know how much I love Judaism (as my faith journey stems from there) and they explained how they do communion is taken from the Jewish sacrifice practices (she explained it much more detailed then I am getting into here).

I was just curious if anyone here had given much thought to the Jewish roots of our beautiful Catholic faith, or if anyone here incorporates any Jewish practices into their spiritual lives. In the Maronite church, the relationship seems much more alive in their traditions and history, but we in the Roman rite seem to see Judaism as a completely separate entity. Israel is really our vine that we are grafted into...we would not be here without them. As I almost converted to Orthodox Judaism when I was younger, the lifestyle I lived back then has carried over into my adult life now and I am finding it hard to just disregard the influence and spirituality I had cultivated then.

Many of my friends and family are really turned off by anything "Jewish", they absolutely don't see how it relates to Catholicism. I don't believe my salvation comes from the 613 laws of the OT (as Jesus is the only way), but I feel so richly connected to G-d when I observe the ones applicabale to my daily life. Is it wrong to live a life with both of these veins pulsing through me? I've read the catechism, and tried to research it, but I haven't been able to find anything on the topic.

Thanks everyone!

Hope you're all having a blessed advent smile

12/03/2012 new
The connections between Christianity and Judaism are far more pronounced in the Eastern Churches than in the Western Church.

The Byzantine liturgy that I am most familiar with has retained a lot of Jewish characteristics. Our theological approach is closer to Judaism than you find in the West.

Our parishes have icon screens in them that recall the Holy of Holies in the Jewish temple.

www.studiesincomparativereligion.com
12/03/2012 new
Here's a good podcast. It's Eastern Orthodox in origin,but is compatible with Eastern Catholic thought as well.

ancientfaith.com
12/04/2012 new

(Quote) Nikki-577950 said: Hey all, So for the past year or so I have attended (on and off...quite a drive) a Maronit...
(Quote) Nikki-577950 said:

Hey all,

So for the past year or so I have attended (on and off...quite a drive) a Maronite church and the parish is just amazing. It's much more of a community than I am used to in Roman rite. A few of the parishoners have reached out to me to teach me about the traditions of the Maronites. They know how much I love Judaism (as my faith journey stems from there) and they explained how they do communion is taken from the Jewish sacrifice practices (she explained it much more detailed then I am getting into here).

I was just curious if anyone here had given much thought to the Jewish roots of our beautiful Catholic faith, or if anyone here incorporates any Jewish practices into their spiritual lives. In the Maronite church, the relationship seems much more alive in their traditions and history, but we in the Roman rite seem to see Judaism as a completely separate entity. Israel is really our vine that we are grafted into...we would not be here without them. As I almost converted to Orthodox Judaism when I was younger, the lifestyle I lived back then has carried over into my adult life now and I am finding it hard to just disregard the influence and spirituality I had cultivated then.

Many of my friends and family are really turned off by anything "Jewish", they absolutely don't see how it relates to Catholicism. I don't believe my salvation comes from the 613 laws of the OT (as Jesus is the only way), but I feel so richly connected to G-d when I observe the ones applicabale to my daily life. Is it wrong to live a life with both of these veins pulsing through me? I've read the catechism, and tried to research it, but I haven't been able to find anything on the topic.

Thanks everyone!

Hope you're all having a blessed advent

--hide--

I was at a Maronite (Mass? Divine Liturgy?) many years ago. I like experiencing the different Rites of the Church.

The connections between the Roman Rite and Judaism are not always especially obvious, but there are some. I don't feel terribly qualified to compare the degree to which it is more obvious in the Eastern Rites.

Is there anything in particular that you like about the Maronites?

12/09/2012 new

(Quote) Nikki-577950 said: Hey all, So for the past year or so I have attended (on and off...quite a drive) a Maronit...
(Quote) Nikki-577950 said:

Hey all,

So for the past year or so I have attended (on and off...quite a drive) a Maronite church and the parish is just amazing. It's much more of a community than I am used to in Roman rite. A few of the parishoners have reached out to me to teach me about the traditions of the Maronites. They know how much I love Judaism (as my faith journey stems from there) and they explained how they do communion is taken from the Jewish sacrifice practices (she explained it much more detailed then I am getting into here).

I was just curious if anyone here had given much thought to the Jewish roots of our beautiful Catholic faith, or if anyone here incorporates any Jewish practices into their spiritual lives. In the Maronite church, the relationship seems much more alive in their traditions and history, but we in the Roman rite seem to see Judaism as a completely separate entity. Israel is really our vine that we are grafted into...we would not be here without them. As I almost converted to Orthodox Judaism when I was younger, the lifestyle I lived back then has carried over into my adult life now and I am finding it hard to just disregard the influence and spirituality I had cultivated then.

Many of my friends and family are really turned off by anything "Jewish", they absolutely don't see how it relates to Catholicism. I don't believe my salvation comes from the 613 laws of the OT (as Jesus is the only way), but I feel so richly connected to G-d when I observe the ones applicabale to my daily life. Is it wrong to live a life with both of these veins pulsing through me? I've read the catechism, and tried to research it, but I haven't been able to find anything on the topic.

Thanks everyone!

Hope you're all having a blessed advent

--hide--


Hi Nikki,

I do see the connections between Catholicism and Judaisim; I believe that we Catholics are basically Jews who have accepted the Messiah. In fact I joke with some of my Jewish friends about this, and the ones who understand Catholicsm agree! That is, we are Jews spiritually, if not genetically. Jesus was a Jew and so were the 12 Apostles. Paul was not merely a Jew but a Pharisee. Some, including the Holy Father, think that the Apostle John may have been a Levite priest.

Our liturgy, especially the Mass, is directly out of the traditional Jewish liturgies. Our symbols, bread and wine are the most important Jewish religious symbols: bread signifying life and reminiscent of the life-giving manna in the desert, and wine signifying the mystical-our contact with God. Our vestments prayers and the Liturgy of the Eucharist which is essentially a Seder meal, all stem from the beauty of the Jewish Faith. In the Mass we honor Abraham our Father in Faith and his chief priest Melchisadek, who was first to offer bread and wine to God in Thanksgiving.

Jesus made it clear that he was not there to overthrow the Jewish Covenant with God, but to fulfill it. It is true that we no longer need to follow the 613 commandments, though the first 10 have been retained, but that we now are saved through the merits of the Messiah Himself, and His obedience to the Father. The Christian understanding of the Economy of Faith is that everything in the OT points to Jesus and that Jesus fulfulls the prophesies of the OT fully. Of note, in the early Church, Christians who were raised Jewish continued to participate in and maintain Jewish traditions when they could (sometimes they were kicked out of the synogogues).

In short one could say that we are the true Jews, for we have the New Jerusalem (the Church), the new ark of the covenant (Mary), the new tabernacle (in each Catholic Church where there are consecrated Hosts and in the hearts of all Christian believers), and the New Covenant (which was ratified by Jesus' death and resurrection instead of splitting an ox in half and having it consumed by fire). The New Covenant is made present again at the consecration in each Mass. You could say that the current Jews are the remnant that rejected their own Messiah. But they are still beloved of God. "Father, Forgive them for they know not what they do."

As inheritors of the redeemed Jewish Faith, as you might say-the daughter Faith, we should honor our mother Faith which is Judaism. I would guess that 80% of our traditions stem at least in part from Judaism, with a few Greek, Roman and Irish traditions thrown in on top over the years. So, if you meet fellow Catholics who do not understand this, what I would say is to invite them to read the OT, and then they will begin to understand. There is also a Jewish-Catholic woman named Moss who gives excellent lectures on the Jewish orgins of our liturgy and traditions, many of which are on tape.

Shalom!

12/09/2012 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Here's a good podcast. It's Eastern Orthodox in origin,but is compatible with Eastern Catholic th...
(Quote) John-220051 said: Here's a good podcast. It's Eastern Orthodox in origin,but is compatible with Eastern Catholic thought as well.

ancientfaith.com
--hide--

Scott Hahn touches on the Theology of the Temple in his series on the Book of Revelation, entitled "The End." I purchased it, and found it well worth repeated listening. It also contains a very good workbook on this.

www.catholiccompany.com

12/09/2012 new
Some of the medieval English variants of the Roman rite, such as the Sarum, more vividly conveyed the theology of the temple because they used something called a rood screen.

It vividly reminded the faithful of how the priest goes into the Holy of Holies during the Mass by dividing the sanctuary from the common area.

en.wikipedia.org
12/09/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Hi Nikki, I do see the connections between Catholicism and Judaisim; I believe t...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:



Hi Nikki,

I do see the connections between Catholicism and Judaisim; I believe that we Catholics are basically Jews who have accepted the Messiah. In fact I joke with some of my Jewish friends about this, and the ones who understand Catholicsm agree! That is, we are Jews spiritually, if not genetically. Jesus was a Jew and so were the 12 Apostles. Paul was not merely a Jew but a Pharisee. Some, including the Holy Father, think that the Apostle John may have been a Levite priest.

Our liturgy, especially the Mass, is directly out of the traditional Jewish liturgies. Our symbols, bread and wine are the most important Jewish religious symbols: bread signifying life and reminiscent of the life-giving manna in the desert, and wine signifying the mystical-our contact with God. Our vestments prayers and the Liturgy of the Eucharist which is essentially a Seder meal, all stem from the beauty of the Jewish Faith. In the Mass we honor Abraham our Father in Faith and his chief priest Melchisadek, who was first to offer bread and wine to God in Thanksgiving.

Jesus made it clear that he was not there to overthrow the Jewish Covenant with God, but to fulfill it. It is true that we no longer need to follow the 613 commandments, though the first 10 have been retained, but that we now are saved through the merits of the Messiah Himself, and His obedience to the Father. The Christian understanding of the Economy of Faith is that everything in the OT points to Jesus and that Jesus fulfulls the prophesies of the OT fully. Of note, in the early Church, Christians who were raised Jewish continued to participate in and maintain Jewish traditions when they could (sometimes they were kicked out of the synogogues).

In short one could say that we are the true Jews, for we have the New Jerusalem (the Church), the new ark of the covenant (Mary), the new tabernacle (in each Catholic Church where there are consecrated Hosts and in the hearts of all Christian believers), and the New Covenant (which was ratified by Jesus' death and resurrection instead of splitting an ox in half and having it consumed by fire). The New Covenant is made present again at the consecration in each Mass. You could say that the current Jews are the remnant that rejected their own Messiah. But they are still beloved of God. "Father, Forgive them for they know not what they do."

As inheritors of the redeemed Jewish Faith, as you might say-the daughter Faith, we should honor our mother Faith which is Judaism. I would guess that 80% of our traditions stem at least in part from Judaism, with a few Greek, Roman and Irish traditions thrown in on top over the years. So, if you meet fellow Catholics who do not understand this, what I would say is to invite them to read the OT, and then they will begin to understand. There is also a Jewish-Catholic woman named Moss who gives excellent lectures on the Jewish orgins of our liturgy and traditions, many of which are on tape.

Shalom!

--hide--


Gerald,

I like what you said about the connections between Catholicism and Judaism. I have a daughter and son-in-law who converted to Messianic Judaism. My daughter's husband is very anti-Catholic. May I please borrow your words and show it to them?

Joanne

12/09/2012 new

(Quote) Joanne-846477 said: Gerald,I like what you said about the connections between Catholicism and Judais...
(Quote) Joanne-846477 said:



Gerald,

I like what you said about the connections between Catholicism and Judaism. I have a daughter and son-in-law who converted to Messianic Judaism. My daughter's husband is very anti-Catholic. May I please borrow your words and show it to them?

Joanne

--hide--

You are more than free to print our comments, and make us of the resource noted. The audio linked at the start is free to download, and Scott Hahn's series "The End" can be purchased through the website I noted, or in any good Catholic bookstore or gift shop.

12/10/2012 new

(Quote) Joanne-846477 said: Gerald,I like what you said about the connections between Catholicism and Judais...
(Quote) Joanne-846477 said:



Gerald,

I like what you said about the connections between Catholicism and Judaism. I have a daughter and son-in-law who converted to Messianic Judaism. My daughter's husband is very anti-Catholic. May I please borrow your words and show it to them?

Joanne

--hide--


Hi Joanne,

Yes, by all means, you may use what I have written. God bless.

Jewrry

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