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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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12/12/2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Using it to help protect our soldiers by offering ground support in a war is a proper u...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Using it to help protect our soldiers by offering ground support in a war is a proper use of the weapon.

It's the abusive use of the drones that we object to, such as the murder of American citizens, even children. Why should we have a kill list like Obama is keeping?

--hide--


Well, I think it should be used by the military, if they are the ones trying to contain terrorists. But if the
US Government used them on citizens, it would not be good. So, I agree with you. Thank you, Steven.

12/12/2012 new
If these things ever get turned on us, I fear debates about ethics won't matter much. I'd hate to look at the skies and see these heartless things threatening us. I chime in a lot about Our Lady of America, and how important I believe she is to our country. I suspect I won't be on these forums for more than a few more weeks, if that, so while I am I'm trying to bring as much attention to her messages as I can, because she is such a great gift to this nation, and really the best path to her Son Jesus, his grace and true peace. Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us. Our Lady of America, pray for us.
12/12/2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I don't think using drones to assassinate a terrorist is unethical. It is really o...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



I don't think using drones to assassinate a terrorist is unethical. It is really our obligation to eliminate terrorists to
protect ourselves.

Why should a soldier have to look into a man's eyes before he eliminated him, if that man had already killed and
disfigured Americans before? To not have any more casualties because of this terrorist, would be the best outcome.
And if a drone could accomplish this, then why not?

--hide--


The problem is who defines "terrorist." One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Any nation can, and many do, define a terrorist is anyone who works against the government. If being a terrorist means you can be assisinated, then any government can basically assisinate anyone whom they wish. They must only call him a terorist at some point.

12/12/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: I didn't take the original question to be one about assassination, but that is not te...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

I didn't take the original question to be one about assassination, but that is not terribly important.

Would you hold the attack that killed Admiral Yamamoto during WWII to be an immoral assassination, or a legitimate attack? If the later, how is that any different than what is going on now?

Preventative war is not even mentioned in Catholic just war theory, let alone prohibited. Granted, the criteria for a just war makes a pre-emptive strike much more difficult to do ethically, but that does not mean it is impossible.

I think a lot of people are looking at drones as if they were radically different than what they are. The notion of "detachment" is exaggerated. At least the guy sitting in front of the screen controlling a drone sees what he's shooting at. For over a century now the crews operating all but the lightest of guns don't even see their targets. They just dial in some numbers and send rounds downrange. Likewise I don't know how people think that drones are so devastating in their fire power. Their payload is not very big. Compared to a B-52 bomber they are almost laughable. A late 19th century artillery battery could have sent far more destructive power down range than a drone, without the gunners ever seeing their targets.

--hide--


I'm glad you brought this up. I remember watching one of the many WWII movies I loved with my Dad when I was a boy. The killing of Admiral Yamamoto came up, and my Dad expressed how he thought that was really wrong the way it was done...specifically targeting him like that and shooting him down while he was essentially defenseless. And late in the war too, when the outcome was clear. Now you need to understand that my Dad was stationed at Pearl Harbor during the sneak attack, served in USS Enterprise, among other stations and ships, and had no love for the Japaenese at any level. Yet, he saw how wrong it was to assasinate a great Admiral like that. Many American sailors admired Yamamoto. But it was the way it was done...using intelligence to determine he would be out visiting his troops, then sneaking up and pouncing on his relatively defenseless aircraft. A cheap shot. Done by the Army of course...I doubt the Navy would have done such a mission. It just wouldn't have occurred to sailors to do that. Sink his ship, sure, but assasinate him in a transport aircraft, no.

12/12/2012 new

I do not know much about the technology of drones but wouldn't there always be the problem of an electro magnetic pulse which one could still use to wipe out the drones?

12/12/2012 new

The use of drones is no more or less ethical than other types of weapons. When bombs drop, canons fire, or ICBM missiles blast off, does the person excecuting these actions have any control over who gets killed? No they do not. Anyone within a certain radius of the impact will be killed or injured. If anything, drones are probably better in that they are capable of a more defined strike area, though the potential for their abuse is sobering.

Sadly, I see it this way. The way of the world is - and has always been - is about powerful people using that power to oppress and exploit those societies which are weaker. It makes no difference whether the reasoning is political, ethnic, or religious. A powerful nation or group benefits at the expence of the suffering of others. Jesus lived his life in direct opposition to this. If everyone lived according to HIS word there would be no war, but we just can't seem to get everyone on board. That said, we have to ask, "What side do you want to be on? The victorious side or the defeated side?" If we don't make every effort to develop the most powerful weapons systems on earth, then someone else will and they will use them to attack and oppress us. You can count on it!

North Korea just successfully launched a long range test missile the other day. Sleep tight America biggrin

12/12/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: The problem is who defines "terrorist." One man's terrorist is another'...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:



The problem is who defines "terrorist." One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Any nation can, and many do, define a terrorist is anyone who works against the government. If being a terrorist means you can be assisinated, then any government can basically assisinate anyone whom they wish. They must only call him a terorist at some point.

--hide--


I can only speak for myself, but I feel anyone who threatens America, and who becomes a member of an antiAmerican
organization (such as Alkaida or its allies) should be labeled a terrorist. This applies whether they are a citizen of the US
or not.

There are so many laws and prohibitions, but in this world, anyone who tries to destroy you or your fellow countryman,
is your enemy. They should be treated as such.

12/12/2012 new

[quote]John-746882 said: If these things ever get turned on us, I fear debates about ethics won't matter much. I'd hate to look at the skies and see these heartless things threatening us. I chime in a lot about Our Lady of America, and how important I believe she is to our country. I suspect I won't be on these forums for more than a few more weeks, if that, so while I am I'm trying to bring as much attention to her messages as I can, because she is such a great gift to this nation, and really the best path to her Son Jesus, his grace and true peace. Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us. Our Lady of America, pray for us. [/quot


May She protect us all, and make you feel Her presence beside you on Her Feast today, dear John, for bringing some notion of Peace to this discussion. Her Son died for us ALL - yes, for Saddam too... I do not believe He would have considered ANY type of warfare acceptable.

hug Praying

Mari

12/12/2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I can only speak for myself, but I feel anyone who threatens America, and who becomes ...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



I can only speak for myself, but I feel anyone who threatens America, and who becomes a member of an antiAmerican
organization (such as Alkaida or its allies) should be labeled a terrorist. This applies whether they are a citizen of the US
or not.

There are so many laws and prohibitions, but in this world, anyone who tries to destroy you or your fellow countryman,
is your enemy. They should be treated as such.

--hide--

Dear Marianne: Please rethink your view on "enemies". An enemy is not only he who hurts you, but it is you if you have - even inadvertently - hurt someone else. We are called to LOVE them as He did in the Cross.

I offer aprayer for you and offer you His Words for solace in this violent time

"But I say this to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Mat 5:44

hug Praying Mari

12/12/2012 new

(Quote) Mari-894290 said: Dear Marianne: Please rethink your view on "enemies". An enemy is not only he w...
(Quote) Mari-894290 said:

Dear Marianne: Please rethink your view on "enemies". An enemy is not only he who hurts you, but it is you if you have - even inadvertently - hurt someone else. We are called to LOVE them as He did in the Cross.

I offer aprayer for you and offer you His Words for solace in this violent time

"But I say this to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Mat 5:44

Mari

--hide--


Mari, that is such good advice. You are right, I could also be an enemy, and we are called to
love as He did on the Cross.

The reason I refer to enemies, and the need to defend, is because I would not like to stand by
and watch my family, friends or fellow countryman be hurt by someone with the mindset to destroy us.

I don't know if you are aware, but Al Kaida has used the computer to recruit members right on our
own soil. These terrorist organizations are very capable of utilizing Twenty-first century technology,
yet have their morals routed in the dark ages.

This is a very new kind of enemy to confront. Our country needs to be vigilant to protect itself.

Wouldn't you want to protect your loved ones from an enemy?

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