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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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12/15/2012 new
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I read this article about two men who are political activists, building small wooden replicas of drones....
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:

I read this article about two men who are political activists, building small wooden replicas of drones.

When I read this, I thought to myself, Drones are the new warfare. They are Americas response
to using 747's to blow up National Landmarks. They are the military's response to unconventional
weapons, since we are not fighting armies anymore, but individual terrorists.

Of course, there are always unintended consequences, like collateral damage. In conventional
warfare though, the damages are much greater.

There always are detractors. What do others think of drones?














www.lohud.com

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Drones in warfare are aircraft, and are as ethical as any other weapon. Flying over my house or in my neighborhood at the behest of an intrusive government; ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
12/15/2012 new
(Quote) Edward-512961 said: Drones in warfare are aircraft, and are as ethical as any other weapon. Flying over my house or in my nei...
(Quote) Edward-512961 said:

Drones in warfare are aircraft, and are as ethical as any other weapon. Flying over my house or in my neighborhood at the behest of an intrusive government; ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
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As the use of drones increases domestically, I can't wait for the first story to come out of an individual shooting one of them down. That person will become a folk hero.
12/15/2012 new

I don't know how others feel. But for me, most recent wars have been a defense of Christianity and Judiasm. Otherwise, most wars have been waged for territory. Modernly, the Israelis and Palestinians come to mind in a territory war. Even there it's not pure. Outsiders try to influence and it has become a regional religious war.


We could also discuss the Crusades. In my opinion, a war fought under ther guise of conversion. But really for territory.

12/15/2012 new

Back to drones.

In my opinioin, they're no different than any other kind of warfare. I'll bet if you lived a while ago and had a military ship, you'd think submarines were cowardly and outrageous. After all, they're sneaky and can get (at one time) under a ship and launch deadly missile.
How is the bow and arrow analogy, the submarine analogy and the use of a drone different from each other?



12/15/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Trust me, I have no intention of getting into a lengthy Iraq War debate here either. Since the...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Trust me, I have no intention of getting into a lengthy Iraq War debate here either. Since the discussion was about pre-emptive war, I only mentioned it as it is the most glaring modern example.

This discussion started from the suggestion that drones were a form of pre-emptive war and that JWT did not contradict pre-emptive war. This is what I was addressing. Any discussion of tactics and strategy are of secondary importance to this matter. First the war needs to be justified.
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It's really not a good example though. Without wishing to get into a discussion about who's right and who's wrong, it's fairly hard to really call the Iraq war truly/purely preventative. For those who accept that there was a long list of reasons for the war, such as Saddam's ongoing tyranny, or ongoing support for suicide bombers in Israel, etc. those were current, immediate objects and it was too late to preempt them. Of course many hold that the war was about WMD's...BUT a good chunk of those people also believe that Bush deliberately lied and knew that they weren't there. Under that theory, the war was actually about stealing oil, or getting revenge for daddy, or making money for defense contractors etc. None of that is pre-emptive either. The only folks who are really in a position to claim the war was entirely preventative are those who hold that The One True Reason for going to war was the WMD's and that Bush made a mistake (be it honest or through negligence) on that point. Those people are fairly rare.

I generally don't bother arguing the point as I prefer to simply attack the notion that pre-emptive warfare is inherently immoral, thereby rendering moot the point of calling the Iraq war pre-emptive.

Better examples of modern pre-emptive attacks would be Pearl Harbor or the British attack on the French fleet after German over ran France in WWII. Right off the top of my head I can't come up with any examples of an entire war, be it modern, ancient, or in between, that was totally preventative in its nature. I'm not saying that such an example doesn't exist. But I can't think of one. Individual attacks, sure, but a whole war? I'd have to work on it.

And in any case, the drones themselves are not inherently pre-emptive in nature anyway. They are most closely akin to snipers, although the recently offered submarine analogy isn't bad either.

12/15/2012 new

(Quote) Edward-512961 said: Drones in warfare are aircraft, and are as ethical as any other weapon. Flying over my house or...
(Quote) Edward-512961 said:

Drones in warfare are aircraft, and are as ethical as any other weapon. Flying over my house or in my neighborhood at the behest of an intrusive government; ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
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It seems that many on this site specify that they would not want the military drones to turn on us in the US.

That would be another topic I think.

I don't want drones over my house or in my neighborhood either.

12/15/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Oh, no question about it. The Greeks considered the bow and arrow to be the weapons of co...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Oh, no question about it. The Greeks considered the bow and arrow to be the weapons of cowards. No doubt they would have considered drones to be infinitely worse.

I think it must no doubt be much harder to instill a warrior ethos in a unit that will always be located as far behind the lines as possible.

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You guys are talking "warrior ethos" and we are talking about protecting America from terrorists.

Terrorists have no "warrior ethos." At least not the kind that the Greeks espoused.

We just want to kill off the terrorists with the least amount of bloodshed. And drones fit the bill!!!!!

12/15/2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: You guys are talking "warrior ethos" and we are talking about protecting Ame...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



You guys are talking "warrior ethos" and we are talking about protecting America from terrorists.

Terrorists have no "warrior ethos." At least not the kind that the Greeks espoused.

We just want to kill off the terrorists with the least amount of bloodshed. And drones fit the bill!!!!!

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One of the tricky things in war in general, and a war like this in particular, is to not become the very enemy you're fighting.

The ethos of our vision of society, and it's dramatic difference from theirs, is ultimately what we are fighting about. It's what makes our side worth fighting for.

So while I have zero problem using drones to attack the terrorists, I also don't mind acknowledging that a warrior ethos is still important.

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