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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Becky-875489 said: I think that gun manufacturer and sellers should be liable for the destruction they cause. Also a...
(Quote) Becky-875489 said:

I think that gun manufacturer and sellers should be liable for the destruction they cause. Also automatic and semi- automatic hollow point should be restricted to law enforcement agencies. A considerable tax on firearms and ammunition to pay for the medical expenses of shooting victims. Licensing all gunowners, and must carry liability insurance, and all firearms cradle to grave registration, the same as a car. But most of these incidents are so random and done by individuals with no criminal history. There is enough stigma on a psych history that these people are already deterred from seeking any kind of help voluntarily. but metal detectors everywhere, who is going to pay for that? But there should be a way to tract someone buying a large supply of ammunition especially for automatic weapons. I have issues with going through a metal detector everytime I go anywhere, why not put the burden on the gun manufacterers and owners. I don't think the second ammendment is relevant to today, when people don't usually hunt for food or need protection from wild animals. Nobody has ever stopped a shooting spree no matter how many guns are out there, because the element of surprise and target are part of the psycho's plan. Thanks for listening anyway.

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Why are you spending so much time talking about automatic weapons? I will, yet again, point out that automatic weapons are neither widely available nor have they been used in any of the recent shootings. For that matter, the only major use of automatic weapons in an American mass murder that I can think of off the top of my head was the St. Valentine's Day Massacre back in the 1920's.

The 2nd Amendment was never about hunting or protection from wild animals. The 2nd Amendment was written entirely for the purpose of enabling the population to defend itself from an oppressive government. The events currently happening in Syria show that such an issue is still very relevant today.

For this reason, plans to track gun owners are a bad idea which would undercut the purpose of the amendment. What is worse is that there is absolutely no reason to believe that such a registry has any chance of preventing any of these shootings.

Likewise forcing people to carry liability insurance will only punish the innocent. The criminals will never bother to buy it, and the law abiding citizens will never actually be liable for anything. So there is absolutely no point to such a law.

Your statement that "Nobody has ever stopped a shooting spree no matter how many guns are out there" is patently and obviously false. Any number of shootings sprees have been brought to an end by guns. I think the highest number of people shot in a shooting spree was by James Huberty in the 1980's who shot something like 50 people and he was stopped when the police shot him.

There is no such thing as "automatic hollow point" or "semi-automatic hollow point." The bullet doesn't know or care about the loading or firing mechanisms of the weapon it is loaded into. It is either the right diameter and length to fit into the chamber, or it isn't.

Fortunately for the gun manufacturers and sellers, under your system they won't have to pay anything; they aren't the ones causing the destruction. That would be the people wielding the guns.

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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Becky-875489 said: These instruments do not allow them to perform 630 abortions in a minute. That is the issue with ...
(Quote) Becky-875489 said:

These instruments do not allow them to perform 630 abortions in a minute. That is the issue with automatic weapons. You cannot even pull a gun and point it in that time to defend yourself. You could do just as much by pulling a fire extinguisher off the wall and aiming for the eyes. but there is no time.

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Why are you talking about automatic weapons? You do realize that they weren't used, don't you?

And if "You cannot even pull a gun and point it in that time to defend yourself" how is it that you explain the fact that police officers and soldiers do exactly that every day?

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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Edward-512961 said: (Quote) Jerry-730726 said: Just heard from a friend: "If guns kill people.....
(Quote) Edward-512961 said:
Quote:
Jerry-730726 said:

Just heard from a friend: "If guns kill people....how come people come out of a gun show alive?"




Excellent point, Jerry. As far as I know, there has never been an armed attack at a gunshow. The guns outnumber the people, all crowded together in a limited space, and everyone comes out OK. There's a lesson there.
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There has never been an armed attack at target practice ranges and shooting clubs, either -- as far as I know. Very puzzling indeed...

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Dec 21st 2012 new
We are challenged to think of this beyond earthly solutions. There are many good, well intentioned ideas presented here, but I think they are all human not Divine. More guns, less guns, different guns, more security, safe rooms, metal detectors, taxes, more laws-- each of these present some new problems to deal with. Would any of them cure the issue? The only true cure is the changing of the human heart. That's too hard right? Not practical? If so we're in deep trouble. If so, why then do we even practice our faith? Tim presented a well thought out post in my view. We need to work with youth. We also need to work our own hearts. Do I watch the wrong TV shows? Am I filling my ears with better things? It starts with us. Do we turn to Our Lord and Our Lady in prayer? That to me is the best place to start. Our Lady of America, pray for us.
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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: Being a mechanical engineer, I am thinking of engineering solutions to this problem.... ...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

Being a mechanical engineer, I am thinking of engineering solutions to this problem....


It seems to me that each classroom could be either designed with, or retrofitted with one of the following:


A) A small "safe room", perhaps not much larger than a good-size closet. If it were a closet, it could be retrofitted with various wall materials like (bullet-proof) steel plate, Kevlar (bullet-proof) mesh, etc., and a heavy door that can be locked and bolted from the inside. It wouldn't be too expensive to install materials that would stop a rifle bullet. A whole classroom of kids and a couple of teachers could cram into such a space in less than a minute, if necessary. They would only have to remain in there for about 15-30 minutes... just until the police arrive and make the situation safe to come out.


B) A trap door in the floor that would lead to the basement mechanical room or a small, below ground shelter. Again, lock it from the inside. In the case of this latest shooting, as soon as shots were heard over the intercom, the entire room full of people could essential disappear safe and sound in perhaps one minute.


Just my thoughts.


Ed

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Ed, your plan certainly provides a very secure solution - but is not at all practical! "a good sized closet"? How are you going to fit 20-25 kids plus the teacher into such a space? Have you visited a classroom lately? (you can always volunteer at your local school as a tutor) While some classrooms are roomy, most are not. There are desks, bookshelves, file cabinets, and all kinds of learning center activity areas for specific class activities and projects. There really is no room to spare. A "trap door"? What about multi-level buildings?

Jerry, in his post, also suggests numerous relevent complications to consider as well. From an engineering standpoint, I suggest first and foremost a secure contained visitors foyer that prevents visitors from entering the school proper, monitored by an armed officer or security guard. In most schools today, once you're past the front door, the hallways are right there and a shooter could begin immediately. Bullet-proof glass should also be considered since schools usually have alot of windows. I still believe the best action that we can take today is having an officer or armed security guard in every building.

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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Timothy-240636 said: The surest way for evil to succeed is for good men/women to do nothing to check its spread. The...
(Quote) Timothy-240636 said:

The surest way for evil to succeed is for good men/women to do nothing to check its spread. The devil's greatest triumph is to have convinced huge swaths of society that he does not exist. Newtown's tragedy is due to demonic influence. I was a public high school teacher for forty-two years. Listen and I'll tell you about our teens...they are angry, disappointed, fearful and disgusted. And those emotions are directed mainly at the adults in their lives. Why? It is because they so desperately want to have courageous and truthful adults to whom they can look up to. So many of these young people are children of divorce. They are the ones who were not aborted, whereas a large percentage of their age group was aborted. So many of their teachers are wimps who push all the trendy liberal garbage of the NEA down their throats..same sex "marriage," homosexuality, abortion, money-acquisition, etc. These young people thirst for truth, thirst for adults who have guts to speak truth. They want lions, not liars. So many of these kids are so confused. What are you all doing to change the status quo? Metal detectors...putting a band-aid on the huge, gaping wound. Get out there and have the fortitude to work with young people...proclaim Christ to them....inform yourselves about His Love...and spread the Word!

Tim

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Out of all the posts on here Tim, yours is the best and most logical Praying

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Dec 21st 2012 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: There has to be some means of access from the outside should someone lock themself(ves) in the r...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



There has to be some means of access from the outside should someone lock themself(ves) in the room, become incapacitated, lose outside communication, etc. Securing the emergency access portal then becomes a concern.



Ventilation and cooling must be provided for, with consideration being given to power failures. The smaller the room, the quicker heat and CO2 will build up. Keep in mind that CO2 is heavier than O2, so a simple vent to the roof is not likely to work.



The most complicated problems to deal with will be behavioral issues: claustrophobia, hysteria, aggressive physical behavior, etc.



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I think just adding electronic locks and bulletproof glass will go a long ways for prevention. I discussed this yesterday with my grandkids' school principal.
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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-730726 said: And here's one from me: "Is it the spoon which make me fat?"
(Quote) Jerry-730726 said:

And here's one from me: "Is it the spoon which make me fat?"

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Have you lost it? "Its the food that jumps out of the plate, into your mouth!" Nothing to do with the spoon.

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Dec 21st 2012 new

(Quote) Mark-741232 said: Tom, Metal detectors may help in some cases, but if someone is determined to murde...
(Quote) Mark-741232 said:

Tom,

Metal detectors may help in some cases, but if someone is determined to murder people, that won't stop them. There was a school shooting a number of years ago in my area on an Indian Reservation, and they had metal detectors. They just ran a car through the front doors and went to shooting.

I think the most logical step would be to have an armed guard in the school, if a school board feels a real threat exists at their location.

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Well, can you believe that. What will they do next to go around killing?

I think they should have several faculty with guns and permits. This way if one is out, there will be others to
stop the madness and not have to use their bodies to protect the children.

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Dec 21st 2012 new

John,


I agree with all of your points above.


I see this as a problem that must be addressed on many fronts.


Same as with my eye operation last week.... I seek the prayers of friends and family and the intercession of Our Lady of Guadalupe and St. Lucy. At the same time, I also rely on the earthly knowledge and training of my eye surgeon, assistant surgeon, anesthesiologist, nurses and support staff, the care of a friend to get me to the hospital and the financial support from my earthly insurance company. All of this came together to end in a successful result. In my experience, God very often works through the earthly means.


All of the individual solutions are pieces in a multifaceted overall solution, and they should be pursued simultaneously.


Ed

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