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Saint Anthony is the patron of lost things and missing persons.
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Jan 30th 2013 new

my 2 sisters have just lost their husbands in the last 6 weeks, and the pain and grief for them and their children is just too overwhelming, to say the least. i am just heart-sick about losing 2 fine, upstanding family men. God took them quickly, they were suffering terribly. He took them Home!

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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Linda-624584 said: I had a Priest who was doing our Parish retreat tell me the same thing a couple of months after B...
(Quote) Linda-624584 said:

I had a Priest who was doing our Parish retreat tell me the same thing a couple of months after Bob had passed. He told me I should take off my wedding rings because at the moment Bob passed, I was no longer married.

So you're right, Kathy, we do have differences.

--hide--
Just noticed this, Linda. The matter of wearing a wedding is an individual's decision, and shouldn't be influenced by others. Many people, especially women, place a high level of symbolism on the ring. It's not a maudlin attachment or a matter of denial -- it has significant meaning and relevance.

As a practical matter, many women continue to wear their rings, especially in public, so they can avoid being hit on, and avoid vulgar, unwanted attention.

Even as a widowed person, there's still an attachment to the spouse who has gone before us. That'll never change. Does that mean we won't be ready someday to marry another? Not at all.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

Adding my 2cents to the open/closed widow(er) room debate which probably wont end until Admin gets it: As a young woman I was divorced after a brief marriage that I would consider a mistake except it gave me two wonderful kids. I was fortunate that I married outside the church, which saved me from the annullment problem. 10 years later I was married again and had a wonderful marriage. Now I am widowed. From experience I can assure all that they are definately NOT the same. As someone else said my kids still have a living father. We chose to be unmarried, it was not chosen for us. In some ways the dissolution of the marriage was energizing; the anger (another difference) drove me to accomplish what I may not have in a satisfactory marriage. Yes there was grief, but it was grief for my loss of an ideal, not the loss of a person. In the divorce, I was aware that the decisions both to marry and to disolve that marriage were to some degree within my control. didnt feel God's will or God's hand in either the marriage or the separation Finding my last husband was a gift from God. Losing him was completely out of either of our hands. He didnt want to leave nor did I want him to, rather we were both desparate to remain together. If there is anger it is at God, although I TRY to substitute gratitude for what we had.
The only thing in common between the situations was pain - but life is full of all kinds of pain. The pain of losing a beloved partner is NOT the same as the pain of disolving a partnership through the choice of one or both partners. If you didnt choose the divorce there is rejection and anger. If you did, there was control -none of which exist in being widowed. If the divorced deserve a protected room - and I agree they do - so do those widowed, especially if it was recent. Criticisms I could have handled off hand before the death are painful right now. I hope Admin finally gets it and provides us with the same protection as the divorced.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

Interesting comments.

I, for one, am glad that non-widowed persons can participate. This is our opportunity to teach them what a successful marriage is all about.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Joan-461057 said: Adding my 2cents to the open/closed widow(er) room debate which probably wont end until Admin gets...
(Quote) Joan-461057 said:

Adding my 2cents to the open/closed widow(er) room debate which probably wont end until Admin gets it: As a young woman I was divorced after a brief marriage that I would consider a mistake except it gave me two wonderful kids. I was fortunate that I married outside the church, which saved me from the annullment problem. 10 years later I was married again and had a wonderful marriage. Now I am widowed. From experience I can assure all that they are definately NOT the same. As someone else said my kids still have a living father. We chose to be unmarried, it was not chosen for us. In some ways the dissolution of the marriage was energizing; the anger (another difference) drove me to accomplish what I may not have in a satisfactory marriage. Yes there was grief, but it was grief for my loss of an ideal, not the loss of a person. In the divorce, I was aware that the decisions both to marry and to disolve that marriage were to some degree within my control. didnt feel God's will or God's hand in either the marriage or the separation Finding my last husband was a gift from God. Losing him was completely out of either of our hands. He didnt want to leave nor did I want him to, rather we were both desparate to remain together. If there is anger it is at God, although I TRY to substitute gratitude for what we had.
The only thing in common between the situations was pain - but life is full of all kinds of pain. The pain of losing a beloved partner is NOT the same as the pain of disolving a partnership through the choice of one or both partners. If you didnt choose the divorce there is rejection and anger. If you did, there was control -none of which exist in being widowed. If the divorced deserve a protected room - and I agree they do - so do those widowed, especially if it was recent. Criticisms I could have handled off hand before the death are painful right now. I hope Admin finally gets it and provides us with the same protection as the divorced.

--hide--
Interesting perspective, Joan. You're able to speak from personal experience from both angles.

It seems this issue just won't get laid to rest. It's "My grief is worse than your grief" continuing, ad nauseum. No, not from you Joan -- just from the accumulation of threads and posts.

Each of us has a cross or crosses to bear -- it's inevitable. Who is to say that one person's cross is heavier than another's? As the saying goes, we're not dealt any more than we can handle. Does that mean each person's cross is equal to another's? Not at all, but it does make comparison difficult.

Is the real argument to be centered around who is worse off? Or is it up to us to help those that are grieving or suffering in some way (ANY way)? That's what the focal point of these threads should be -- SUPPORT for one another. Fortunately, many widowed people have had the benefit of prayerful and meaningful support from others on CM, no matter what their own marital status has been. And this is as it should be.

The same could be said about illnesses. Should we be comparing our illness (if we have one) with that of another person? Who is worse off? Or (again) should the effort be made to be supportive?

It's because I don't want to exclude receiving support from others when and if I need it; and because I want to be supportive to any and all in need here that I would like the playing field to be level. As a widower myself, I welcome comments from everyone, having discovered they have much to offer, and, often, it's because they haven't been in the same position that they're able to offer an objective perspective.

Let's not shun those who sincerely wish to help. Most threads have some irrelevant comments which can be ignored if you so choose, or regard them as a necessary diversion. I've done that myself, mostly to lighten the mood at times. Fortunately, most of the time the majority of thoughts and ideas are helpful and supportive, and, as such, appreciated by me and most of those seeking support.

Wisdom is not confined to a certain group. Let's try to keep a unified approach rather than a divisive one and appreciate what others have to offer.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: Interesting comments.I, for one, am glad that non-widowed persons can participate. This i...
(Quote) Marge-938695 said:

Interesting comments.

I, for one, am glad that non-widowed persons can participate. This is our opportunity to teach them what a successful marriage is all about.

--hide--
An excellent thought, Marge. biggrin

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: Interesting comments.I, for one, am glad that non-widowed persons can participate. This i...
(Quote) Marge-938695 said:

Interesting comments.

I, for one, am glad that non-widowed persons can participate. This is our opportunity to teach them what a successful marriage is all about.

--hide--



You haven't had one of them chastise you for posting something you are very sensitive about or watching as a new widow is chastised by someone never married or divorce. It is pretty ugly and a very sad thing to watch, and has caused a lot of widows to stop posting here.


LOCKED
Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Joan-461057 said: Adding my 2cents to the open/closed widow(er) room debate which probably wont end until Admin gets...
(Quote) Joan-461057 said:

Adding my 2cents to the open/closed widow(er) room debate which probably wont end until Admin gets it: As a young woman I was divorced after a brief marriage that I would consider a mistake except it gave me two wonderful kids. I was fortunate that I married outside the church, which saved me from the annullment problem. 10 years later I was married again and had a wonderful marriage. Now I am widowed. From experience I can assure all that they are definately NOT the same. As someone else said my kids still have a living father. We chose to be unmarried, it was not chosen for us. In some ways the dissolution of the marriage was energizing; the anger (another difference) drove me to accomplish what I may not have in a satisfactory marriage. Yes there was grief, but it was grief for my loss of an ideal, not the loss of a person. In the divorce, I was aware that the decisions both to marry and to disolve that marriage were to some degree within my control. didnt feel God's will or God's hand in either the marriage or the separation Finding my last husband was a gift from God. Losing him was completely out of either of our hands. He didnt want to leave nor did I want him to, rather we were both desparate to remain together. If there is anger it is at God, although I TRY to substitute gratitude for what we had.
The only thing in common between the situations was pain - but life is full of all kinds of pain. The pain of losing a beloved partner is NOT the same as the pain of disolving a partnership through the choice of one or both partners. If you didnt choose the divorce there is rejection and anger. If you did, there was control -none of which exist in being widowed. If the divorced deserve a protected room - and I agree they do - so do those widowed, especially if it was recent. Criticisms I could have handled off hand before the death are painful right now. I hope Admin finally gets it and provides us with the same protection as the divorced.

--hide--



Thank you for your post, Joan. I don't think providing widows a safe haven to share their experiences and heal is a high priority on CM. I suspect it is because they are not widows and do not understand the pain we have and are suffering or the need to share our feelings in a safe environment. I do not believe they are actively being mean, they just don't understand our pain or our needs.

But, you may be just the person who can articulate these issues to Admin in a way that will allow them to see the need to have a protected room for widows. I did not include widowers as persons who need to be protected because most men didn't lose their protector and already have thick skin and a toughness about them. Most widows depended on their husbands to protect them and didn't have time to pull out of the numbness of their loss to develop that thick skin. I am from the deep South and am used to being protected and never really developed a thick skin until the last six years and it is most definitely just a veneer. I would, however, include both widows and widowers in this proposed safe haven room. It may be that some widowers have not felt safe enough themselves, to put their feelings out there for some insensitive person to knock around.


And, the falicy of someone who is not a widow or widower being able to share information with us is that they can message whoever they wish which is the same someone can do in response to something said in the divorced room.


Watching a widow pour out her heart and have it stepped on by an insensitive or judgemental comment is like watching someone pour salt water on the wound of a woman who just lost part of her body. It serves no good purpose. I know of several widows who had this happen to who no longer posts here. What sadness for someone who has lost her spouse and wishes to heal with the help of other widows and widowers who are the only persons who can truly know how she feels.


What several of us have done is email, message or call one another. Venting about our loss is so important and doing so without tip toeing around our pain for the benefit of those who are not widows is a bit worthless.




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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said: Thank you for your post, Joan. I don't think providing widows a safe haven to...
(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said:




Thank you for your post, Joan. I don't think providing widows a safe haven to share their experiences and heal is a high priority on CM. I suspect it is because they are not widows and do not understand the pain we have and are suffering or the need to share our feelings in a safe environment. I do not believe they are actively being mean, they just don't understand our pain or our needs.

But, you may be just the person who can articulate these issues to Admin in a way that will allow them to see the need to have a protected room for widows. I did not include widowers as persons who need to be protected because most men didn't lose their protector and already have thick skin and a toughness about them. Most widows depended on their husbands to protect them and didn't have time to pull out of the numbness of their loss to develop that thick skin. I am from the deep South and am used to being protected and never really developed a thick skin until the last six years and it is most definitely just a veneer. I would, however, include both widows and widowers in this proposed safe haven room. It may be that some widowers have not felt safe enough themselves, to put their feelings out there for some insensitive person to knock around.


And, the falicy of someone who is not a widow or widower being able to share information with us is that they can message whoever they wish which is the same someone can do in response to something said in the divorced room.


Watching a widow pour out her heart and have it stepped on by an insensitive or judgemental comment is like watching someone pour salt water on the wound of a woman who just lost part of her body. It serves no good purpose. I know of several widows who had this happen to who no longer posts here. What sadness for someone who has lost her spouse and wishes to heal with the help of other widows and widowers who are the only persons who can truly know how she feels.


What several of us have done is email, message or call one another. Venting about our loss is so important and doing so without tip toeing around our pain for the benefit of those who are not widows is a bit worthless.




--hide--
Elizabeth, you stated the facts/feelings so very well.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Linda-624584 said: Elizabeth, you stated the facts/feelings so very well.
(Quote) Linda-624584 said:

Elizabeth, you stated the facts/feelings so very well.

--hide--



Thank you, Linda. hug theheart

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