Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Jan 5th 2013 new

This is my first ever posting ~ I had the exact same experience ~

There is nothing more lonely or despairing than being in a married relationship and being totally alone in things , especially raising children. I too stepped up and sacrificed my life for the sake of my childen.

I am only just now being freed up to consider God's special person for myself.

I know of one person who was relunctant to date when they discovered that the possible children's ages are just shy of college age. They are definately in our world.

As for me , this tends to reveal to me that they possibly lack sincerity, depth and values that are preciously catholic. Or could it be that they are just being true to themselves and to you?

Time takes time.
My story is one where my match selected for me by God, is still yet to be and having said that, a few more responsible and less free realtionship years ,is a small price for marrying my match made in heaven.

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Hi Tom, I went the same route you did.I just couldn't get married while my daughters w...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Hi Tom,

I went the same route you did.I just couldn't get married while my daughters were so young.One and two years old at time of separation,divorce,annulment.Now they are 17 and 18 with black belts in Karate.Much better scenario.Lol!Now is my time,except I need to help them through College.I am glad I waited till now to get serious about getting married.

--hide--
Well, my friend, good for you and your girls. I'm sure you came out of it just fine being Mr. Mom and Mr. Dad. I hope your reward is on its way and you can have that companionship, which you sacrificed for your daughters, as you head into the Golden Years. Nice to hear your story.

Jan 5th 2013 new
Shara you said I think that if you have a good spouse then you both end up taking care of the kids as it now both of your jobs to love them and get them to heaven

In my opinion, when we have a good spouse he is going to put our kids ahead as if they were his own kids the same as we should do if he has his own kids. If he was not a good husband then we better not have him around us or around our kids, that is why our choice should be well taken.

When it is very important to care for our spouse and give them our love and undivided attention we may expect the same from them too, but once we have kids or they have kids all the situation changes because Kids are our responsibility, we brought them to life, or if they are not our biological kids, we are in charge of them and we are responsible to take care of their well being, they are powerless and all they know is that their parents or the adult in their life should be the source of love, care, protection and satisfaction of their needs, who give them security and emotional stability.

Now we also need to care for our well being to be able to give them the care they need. But this should never be on their expenses. Here comes our role as parents or stepparents to let them understand certain limits in their demands to know when they can get their needs met and when they need to wait. Those are good life lessons for them and not selfishness from our parts because here we can find a way to care for our well being without affecting theirs. God Bless! heart
Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-919560 said: Thanks for the supportive tone, but I'm not condemning anyone who wishes to get remarried. I am...
(Quote) Tom-919560 said:

Thanks for the supportive tone, but I'm not condemning anyone who wishes to get remarried. I am simply stating that all the arguments henceforth supporting marriage are referring to the first marriage. Do I think the people who wrote the CCC or the Documents of Vatican II , or any Papal Encyclical would be lumping in second marriages when they are clearly, to me, speaking about God's plan for us to get it right the first time? I don't think the writings encompass second marriages, and the pastor's commentary--while very beautiful--do not necessarily speak of second marriages, but rather, God's plan for us to get marriage right SO THAT children need not suffer. Nothing new here, Shara, but the problem is THE KIDS HAVE SUFFERED ONCE MOM AND DAD GET DIVORCED, so the question now becomes "what can be done to limit the damage?" Your response to this is a little different than mine, and you accused me earlier of not being catechetically sound and of being apostate to Mother Church. While I think you have backed off on both claims, I sensed that my initial post, which urged more forethought before mixing families, was taken as a threat to your belief and your hope for a new life with a good man. You further complicated the issue by making claims then and now that Church writing seems to encourage re-marriage; but I know our Church a little better than that and I know it has always been very clear-headed and rational in its thinking, so much that I can't tolerate reading much of anything else except that which the Church teaches me about our existence. Hence, when I hear the claims that the Church would say "Full speed ahead" I know that She thinks much more critically than to say such a thing. She must teach us in Her wonderfully analytical way exactly how to navigate the waters. I thought my unselfish subordination of feminine companionship via remarriage nine years ago was exactly what Jesus would say to me; he still allows me the opportunity to ride off into the sunset with my bride a few years henceforth once my kids are completely on their own and I've taken care of business with the diocesean marriage tribunal...if that in fact goes my way. If not, I'm not going Protestant.

I respect the folks at Franciscan U and will be happy to read what they've come up with, specifically on this question: What does the Church say about the effects of re-marriages upon children in blended families?

--hide--

First off please note that I never implied Fran Univ has writings on this. I simply said that I was taught that in MARRIAGE not DATING that the order was God, Spouse, Children, Vocation. That would not have come up then as I was not married then. If getting a source from them would make you happy and assure you that my statement was not in error then I will be happy to reach out to a few of my old professors. This though will not be a quick process. I will let my friend in Opus Dei know that she should stop since you do not respect their opinion. Please know that she was looking encyclical and church document support. Since you seem to have particular means by which the support should come I ty to adhere to that. The reason it was challenging is that while we all know it is what is taught but we have not found the hard document as yet. I am also reaching out to my friends at the Pontifical College Joesephinum( a pontifical seminary) for help in providing you proof. NOONE has been saying that the Church advocates re-marriage especially without fore-thought. The Church does not even advocate MARRIAGE without forethought. Where are you getting this from? It is very concerning that you got that from my posts. I am NOT advocating casual entrance into re-marriage. I have not and never would. I am also not advocating casual dating. Nothing in my post suggests that at all.Your posts do seem angry and you do seem pained.

I also want to address your claim that my response to you was because I felt theatened about my hope and belief of a life with a new man. It was not. I am not afraid to be alone if that is where God calls me to. Had that been the case I would not have waited over 7 years post divorce and almost 5 yeas post annulment to even begin to consider dating. I also make all of my decisions with my spiritual director and regular confessor. (If you do not have one of those I advocate them and find them helpful in keeping up from making CASUAL decisions.) If that to you constitutes a casual decision then I am not sure what to say.

I am not required to provide you with this information but if this helps to shut down at least the posts about my casual entrance into dating and or marriage it will be worth it.

I have had spiritual director and confessor almost throughtout my entire marriage, my dirvorce and post marriage. Most have been Opus Dei priest execpt when I first moved to Columbus when the Dean of Men at the Pontifical College Josephinum was mine for about 9 months as we did not have a priest who could make it to Columbus regualary enough to administer formation as needed. He is also not a flaky priest and please note that the Josephinum is the only Pontifical College outside of the Vatican ( orso i have been told bythem :-). So if you need proof of that you can contact them at their website) and is known to be extremely conservative. I am extremely open with these priests and the are part of everything I do especially major decisions and I trust their judgement. None of my directors so far can be considered anything but conservative. When I was at Fran Univ Fr. Michael Scanlan was my director for almost 3 of my 4 years and I did ministry with him including on EWTN. He flew down to St. Lucia and married me( he and I are so close that he even spent some of my honeymoon together with me as we honeymooned in a monastery). He was made aware of some defects that he and Idid not know of post wedding which is why my annulement process went so quickly. He thought that we could have resolved them but alas we were not able to. My regular use of director and confessors was what made my annulment go quickly as it was easier to show where the defects occured and that this was a valid cause. I have also had Fr. Tom (Opus Dei priest)post college and he was mine until he moved to Chicago. Then I had Fr. Jerry (Opus Dei priest), Fr John ( dean of men at the Josephinum), Fr. Charles ( Opus Dei priest) and now Fr. Marty ( Opus Dei priest). No major decision in MY LIFE has wilfully been made casually. I would charge that anyone who can charge that may have WAY to stringent views on decision making.

The discussion my possible dating began with Fr. Charles over three years ago when my daughter wrote down a "Holy Daddy who loves my Mommy, you and us" on her Baby Jesus list. She was five at the time. We do not do Santa lists at my house not that we think they are wrong. We do a Baby Jesus list and it is a list of things she wants as gifts from God and her prayer to him and includes monetary items and intangible ones. We pray for the items on the list daily from about October until Christmas. It teaches her that every gift comes from God and also the concept of prayer. She has vocalized to both of us ( my priest and me) that she knows what she wants. She has also been made aware that it will only happen with prayer. When I asked her once how she would feel about me dating and it not working out, her response was " Don't worry Mommy if we pray, God will make sure that we pick the right one". It took her asking or this and a baby brother and or sister for three years (October 2010 was when this started ) for my spiritual director to tell me that he thought that it was time. He was the one that suggested CM as he had heard many good stories throught it. It was not that i was still hurting as thorugh, prayer, support through my community and very special friends I was able to deal with a lot of adversity and move on through the healing process quickly. I just truly had no desire to. It was hard to deal with my desire to please my daughter and honoring what I was feelnig or not feeling in my heart. It wasextremly helpful to have someone to work through that with. I thank God that I have that as I know that many people do not. My story would be so different without it. That is why sites like CM are such an important lay ministry.

If my above sharing still says to you that I am casually looking to date and or I advocate marriage or re-marriage without forethought, there is nothing more that I can say to you and I will no longer address your persistent comments. The only thing that I will do is get a theology professor at Franciscan University to speak to why the Church believes that in MARRIAGE (not DATING) that the order of priorities is God, Spouse, Children,Vocation. Not sure how that statement can be contrued as implying that one should casually enter into marriage and dating but I will get that statement confirmed for you. I will even see if I can get you an e-mail address for direct communication should you require futher clarification.

Jan 5th 2013 new

WOW - this is an amazing thread with lots of information! As we all receive our annulments, the last page states what the church would advise us to focus on in order to have a healthy 2nd marriage. If we have been pro-active in the learning process that an annulment can provide, then some of that learning and growth should have started during the process of answering the questions. I find part of the church's problem (and societies) is that even within our own faith, many don't understand the annulment process or it's intent. The church is a very poor communicator of it's own mission in this regards as it also is in re-marriage as a whole. During the feast of the Holy Family, my priest also had a wonderful homily. He's an older priest and has a sister who's been through a divorce. He stated in his homily the church of course would prefer divorces don't occur but they do and understands and supports the divorced members as well as those who re-marry. He said as well that the church doesn't dictate we shouldn't remarry or that we must stay single - he said we each have to listen to God and find the path that is our vocation whether it be single or to remarry. He did say during a divorce's session that the church "honors the 2 A's for divorce: adultery, addiction and abuse" as some of the "valid reasons" for divorce but there are others as well.

Thanks for all of the great information and opinions! I can learn a lot here!

God bless,

Susie

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Bryan-7889 said: Interesting question, Michelle. All I can do is relate my own experiences being both in relationsh...
(Quote) Bryan-7889 said:

Interesting question, Michelle. All I can do is relate my own experiences being both in relationships in the past with absentee (deadbeat) dads, as well as those who took an active interest in their offspring.

First case...dad left to hook up with an 18-year-his-junior because he just could not deal with (he claimed) having a kid. As the Godfather (and friends with both parents from childhood...doesn't mean I don't think he's not a jerk of the highest level) guess who stepped in? Platonic friends with the mom, but, who was there for the skinned knees, science projects, piano recitals, teaching parallel parking...schlepping to college and teenage angst and drama? Yup. Guess who also had the honor of the first dance at her wedding? Why me, and not the biological father? Because, in my Goddaughter's eyes, while he contributed the genetic material...I was her male reference point...and as thus, how she turned out was more my doing than his.

Second case: still friends with the kids and mom...and hear from the kids regularly. In fact, they're good friends. Did stuff as a 'blended' combination, same as case 1...

In other words, a man's place, with a woman who has young'uns running around, is to be a good Catholic man, respectful of the mother's perogatives, support her (yeah, they will try and play one off against the other, just like a nuclear family) in her decisions and roles, and take the lead from HER as to how SHE wants him to be.

Even at 56...I still meet women who have older children (which is a whole 'nother ball of wax) as well as grandkids. I take my cue from them. But, good men have a chance to be good examples. I never turn away from that.
--hide--


This is a really good example of how I would want a man to approach my family. With that attitude, I can't imagine you not gaining the respect needed to be a welcome leader. Thank you, Bryan.

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-695247 said: Hi Kathy! I agree with you...when people are dating...of course the kids still come first...
(Quote) Laura-695247 said:



Hi Kathy! I agree with you...when people are dating...of course the kids still come first. When engagement happens that is transition. When a marriage happens, that is the new foundation. The kids should be learning/knowing their place and why...during this process.
Mom and Dad, even if it is a step or foster parents are the foundation...not any old date that comes and goes for a few weekends....that was not the point of the post.

Children should know they are loved. When they have that unconditional love, they won't question they parental unit... as much. There will probably be turf wars and battles...parents should not give into these power struggles. It is not good for thier husband/wife relationship and it is not a good example to the children. Just my thoughts....I have never been a parent mind you:o)

--hide--


Laura,

I appreciate your opinion. I don't believe you need to have children to understand the dynamics. And yes, I am hoping for that leader that can temper his demands with unconditional love, though sometimes it takes a while to reach that level. We're all works in progress. Children keep us humble and the only thing I've learned since having them is how much I don't know!

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Therese-668052 said: Shara you said I think that if you have a good spouse then you both end up taking care of the ...
(Quote) Therese-668052 said: Shara you said I think that if you have a good spouse then you both end up taking care of the kids as it now both of your jobs to love them and get them to heaven

In my opinion, when we have a good spouse he is going to put our kids ahead as if they were his own kids the same as we should do if he has his own kids. If he was not a good husband then we better not have him around us or around our kids, that is why our choice should be well taken.

When it is very important to care for our spouse and give them our love and undivided attention we may expect the same from them too, but once we have kids or they have kids all the situation changes because Kids are our responsibility, we brought them to life, or if they are not our biological kids, we are in charge of them and we are responsible to take care of their well being, they are powerless and all they know is that their parents or the adult in their life should be the source of love, care, protection and satisfaction of their needs, who give them security and emotional stability.

Now we also need to care for our well being to be able to give them the care they need. But this should never be on their expenses. Here comes our role as parents or stepparents to let them understand certain limits in their demands to know when they can get their needs met and when they need to wait. Those are good life lessons for them and not selfishness from our parts because here we can find a way to care for our well being without affecting theirs. God Bless!
--hide--

Thanks for the feedback Therese. biggrin Since I know that you are trying to help me and are comnig from a neutral position it shows me that maybe I am not being clear in my message. Truly sorry about that and I am so grateful for your pointing that out to me. I think that I am being misunderstood. I would never advocate doing anything at someone's expense ( other than a dinner date wink ) far less the kids that God is trusting us to care for. I think that the thought process is that as we develop the marriage that we love each other as an example or the kids and as one we make it a priority to love them. My kids would never (I hope) be put in a position of compromise by me or anyone I allow into their lives. That is why the process of discernment is especially important when there are other souls that are part of your stewardship involved.

Like I said before, I think that society has made a position of subordination seem like a loss of dignity. I hear the same complaint from women on the "wives submit to your husband phrase". A holy priest once told me that submission broken down from its roots is sub- under and missio- love. So when we are in a place of submission, ideally we should be under love. True love is a sacrifice that upholds and uplifts the dignity of those subordinate to us. We aresubordinate to Christ. That is the position of greatest dignity. It is why the rest of the passage says Husbands loves your wives as Christ loves the Church even laying down His life for it. So when we say that our children are subordinate to us it does not mean that it is at their expense but that they are in a position of sacrifice and protection. So children are subordinate to you and your marriage. They are wards and part of your stewardship. In some cases God requires the single life for that to be accomplished and in some cases he does not. It is a case by case and as in all things requires prayer and discernment. We can not assume that if someone's path is one of no re-marriage when their children are young it is wrong and vice versa. Neither is the greater good unless it is God's will. The greatest good is always seeking God's will in all and teaching our kids to do the same.

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: Thanks for the feedback Therese. Since I know that you are trying to help me and are com...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

Thanks for the feedback Therese. Since I know that you are trying to help me and are comnig from a neutral position it shows me that maybe I am not being clear in my message. Truly sorry about that and I am so grateful for your pointing that out to me. I think that I am being misunderstood. I would never advocate doing anything at someone's expense ( other than a dinner date ) far less the kids that God is trusting us to care for. I think that the thought process is that as we develop the marriage that we love each other as an example or the kids and as one we make it a priority to love them. My kids would never (I hope) be put in a position of compromise by me or anyone I allow into their lives. That is why the process of discernment is especially important when there are other souls that are part of your stewardship involved.

Like I said before, I think that society has made a position of subordination seem like a loss of dignity. I hear the same complaint from women on the "wives submit to your husband phrase". A holy priest once told me that submission broken down from its roots is sub- under and missio- love. So when we are in a place of submission, ideally we should be under love. True love is a sacrifice that upholds and uplifts the dignity of those subordinate to us. We aresubordinate to Christ. That is the position of greatest dignity. It is why the rest of the passage says Husbands loves your wives as Christ loves the Church even laying down His life for it. So when we say that our children are subordinate to us it does not mean that it is at their expense but that they are in a position of sacrifice and protection. So children are subordinate to you and your marriage. They are wards and part of your stewardship. In some cases God requires the single life for that to be accomplished and in some cases he does not. It is a case by case and as in all things requires prayer and discernment. We can not assume that if someone's path is one of no re-marriage when their children are young it is wrong and vice versa. Neither is the greater good unless it is God's will. The greatest good is always seeking God's will in all and teaching our kids to do the same.

--hide--

Shara - thanks for sharing so much. I think people are reading into your messages and guessing at your meaning.

In addition to the children's welfare morally is the psychological aspect of learning what a healthy marriage is. If you pull up references (gen psych ones not the church) on the break down of marriage and why children of divorced parents are more likely to also have a divorce - they point to the fact that when a divorce occurs, the children don't learn what a healthy marriage is - especially if the parent doesn't remarry. I'm not saying marry for that reason - but there are benefits to a HEALTHY marriage after a divorce. Children (even teens) learn from us on all levels and actions in a healthy marriage - which is what we all hope they will have - can be taught by living in a healthy marriage. For every 2nd marriage some point to or have experienced that are bad, there are many that are great and positive. I think that kids - just like adults - all respond differently to the divorce and some might prefer their parent to remarry and some don't. There is no hard and fast rule to whats healthy and what's not - pros and cons to everything. I think this is a good open fora and no view point is wrong - just different.

Jan 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Susie-890857 said: Shara - thanks for sharing so much. I think people are reading into your messag...
(Quote) Susie-890857 said:

Shara - thanks for sharing so much. I think people are reading into your messages and guessing at your meaning.

In addition to the children's welfare morally is the psychological aspect of learning what a healthy marriage is. If you pull up references (gen psych ones not the church) on the break down of marriage and why children of divorced parents are more likely to also have a divorce - they point to the fact that when a divorce occurs, the children don't learn what a healthy marriage is - especially if the parent doesn't remarry. I'm not saying marry for that reason - but there are benefits to a HEALTHY marriage after a divorce. Children (even teens) learn from us on all levels and actions in a healthy marriage - which is what we all hope they will have - can be taught by living in a healthy marriage. For every 2nd marriage some point to or have experienced that are bad, there are many that are great and positive. I think that kids - just like adults - all respond differently to the divorce and some might prefer their parent to remarry and some don't. There is no hard and fast rule to whats healthy and what's not - pros and cons to everything. I think this is a good open fora and no view point is wrong - just different.

--hide--

Could not be better said. Thank you for that. clap

Posts 141 - 150 of 162