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Devoted to discussion pertaining to those issues which are specifically relevant to people 45+. Topics must have a specific perspective of people in this age group for it to be on topic.

The story of Abraham and Sarah is told in chapters 11-25 of the book of Genesis.
Learn More:Abraham & Sarah

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: Okay.. Does this mean that a young man or woman who may have had a medical history an...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:


Okay.. Does this mean that a young man or woman who may have had a medical history and knows they cannot have a child should remove themselves from possibility of marriage? Where is the line drawn? Over 50 and anyone who knows they are sterile? What about the people among those who 'can't' get married because they are sterile, but feel no particular calling to be a 'minister' of the Church? And how does one determine whether it's a calling from God? Is he going to tell us? How will he tell us? A voice in the middle of the night waking us up from a dead sleep?


Do you think there is a Church teaching somewhere that tells us we are to live our 'after procreative' years alone?.. If there was, Jerry would have no problem telling us where to find it in the Catechism..I guarantee you that..

--hide--


Yes, those are the things I'd welcome a discussion on. It used to be, during biblical times a widow was considered a homeless woman. An orphan was her child. Times have changed, we are no longer "taken" into the homes of our husband's brother after he dies to be cared for and looked after.

Younger, infertile couples still have the option to adopt. Granted, while that is still an option for, and many older couples accept the call to raise their own grandchildren, it is an exceptional undertaking and not the usual course of action. So, what is the "purpose" of an older couple seeking marriage. While there are certainly several motivating factors and benefits, does it do anything fertile in the eyes of the church?

Both my grandmothers were widowed fairly young, like myself. Neither sought to remarry and both lived into their 90's. One felt marriage was too much work, the other had already had the love of her life and that was good enough for her. Both fulfilled their obligations of a Catholic marriage. I differ in that I want to marry again. Am I being selfish or is there a purpose in feeling this way?

Dec 31st 2012 new

Oh, and I wouldn't discount that voice in the middle of the night thing. Historically, God has spoken to many in their dreams. Who are we to say it doesn't happen still?

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Kathy-635104 said: If the purpose of a Catholic marriage, as a unique union between man and woman, is for the propag...
(Quote) Kathy-635104 said:

If the purpose of a Catholic marriage, as a unique union between man and woman, is for the propagation of the human family and the upbringing of children, where does that leave those of us past childbearing years? Is marriage encouraged or are we called to serve in a different way?

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Keep looking, Kathy. It's not a problem even if you're beyond child bearing years. Marriage can be fruitful in many other ways. If there are no children and you want a child-related activity, there's foster parenting, various organizations that need adult help with youngsters.

The main element is that you are open to life. Child bearing is an important element of marriage, but it isn't the only one.

While you are unmarried there is much you can do to be of service to the Church and your fellow man; the same can be said of a married couple. We see people getting married in their 80's and 90's. My thought about that is "Bless their hearts." Marital love is ageless.

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: Okay.. Does this mean that a young man or woman who may have had a medical history an...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:


Okay.. Does this mean that a young man or woman who may have had a medical history and knows they cannot have a child should remove themselves from possibility of marriage? Where is the line drawn? Over 50 and anyone who knows they are sterile? What about the people among those who 'can't' get married because they are sterile, but feel no particular calling to be a 'minister' of the Church? And how does one determine whether it's a calling from God? Is he going to tell us? How will he tell us? A voice in the middle of the night waking us up from a dead sleep?


Do you think there is a Church teaching somewhere that tells us we are to live our 'after procreative' years alone?.. If there was, Jerry would have no problem telling us where to find it in the Catechism..I guarantee you that..

--hide--
Ahh, yes, Donna......wisdom and humor make for a great post!!!! biggrin

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Kathy-635104 said: Yes, those are the things I'd welcome a discussion on. It used to be, during biblical...
(Quote) Kathy-635104 said:



Yes, those are the things I'd welcome a discussion on. It used to be, during biblical times a widow was considered a homeless woman. An orphan was her child. Times have changed, we are no longer "taken" into the homes of our husband's brother after he dies to be cared for and looked after.

Younger, infertile couples still have the option to adopt. Granted, while that is still an option for, and many older couples accept the call to raise their own grandchildren, it is an exceptional undertaking and not the usual course of action. So, what is the "purpose" of an older couple seeking marriage. While there are certainly several motivating factors and benefits, does it do anything fertile in the eyes of the church?

Both my grandmothers were widowed fairly young, like myself. Neither sought to remarry and both lived into their 90's. One felt marriage was too much work, the other had already had the love of her life and that was good enough for her. Both fulfilled their obligations of a Catholic marriage. I differ in that I want to marry again. Am I being selfish or is there a purpose in feeling this way?

--hide--
Kathy, you have presented an interesting query...
I believe that those of us beyond propagation still can be "open to new life"--whether raising grandkids, foster care, or taking on a member of one's family (great-niece/nephew). I also have seen much older parents, who adopt children, even after serving as foster parents. A couple in my neighborhood have adopted two siblings, ages 7 and 15, and these folks are in their mid-60's. For the children, it is a MUCH better home life...

The fact that a person is beyond or incapable of producing offspring shouldn't matter to God in our pairing. We can still witness to others a "Godly marriage", respect for Life, and help others (especially our spouse!) get to a more perfect state in preparation for Eternity.

I'm not willing to stop hoping that God wants me to share my life and love with another man, even after having a wonderful marital experience severed by death. There's just too much intense power of God's love not to expect He'd want us to lay like a waiting seed in barren rock....I mean, all it takes is a strong gust of wind, or a bird's beak to carry that seed to fertile soil, right????

And yes, I think I've heard a voice in the night before--and not just that of the milkman!! laughing laughing

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Beverly-649723 said: Kathy, you have presented an interesting query... I believe that those of us beyond ...
(Quote) Beverly-649723 said:

Kathy, you have presented an interesting query...


I believe that those of us beyond propagation still can be "open to new life"--whether raising grandkids, foster care, or taking on a member of one's family (great-niece/nephew). I also have seen much older parents, who adopt children, even after serving as foster parents. A couple in my neighborhood have adopted two siblings, ages 7 and 15, and these folks are in their mid-60's. For the children, it is a MUCH better home life...

--hide--

While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be careful not to fall into the temptation of using them as an invalid substitution for being open to the propagation of new life through our own fertility. For example, a still fertile couple that decides they are too old to have babies and begins using NFP permanently to prevent such while adopting a child. I realize this isn't what you are suggesting, Beverly; however, it's easy to see how someone might decide to extend your logic.

The non-issue of whether those who are no longer fertile can marry seems to be raised, more often than not, by those attempting to discredit the Church's teaching in this area using an appeal to emotion ("Well, if we take this teaching literally then those who are infertile can't marry", suggesting that this can't possibly be true so the entire teaching should be rejected). I'm not suggesting this was Kathy's intent, but I have seen it presented this way even in the CM forums multiple times.

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Kathy-635104 said: Yes, those are the things I'd welcome a discussion on. It used to be, during biblical...
(Quote) Kathy-635104 said:



Yes, those are the things I'd welcome a discussion on. It used to be, during biblical times a widow was considered a homeless woman. An orphan was her child. Times have changed, we are no longer "taken" into the homes of our husband's brother after he dies to be cared for and looked after.

Younger, infertile couples still have the option to adopt. Granted, while that is still an option for, and many older couples accept the call to raise their own grandchildren, it is an exceptional undertaking and not the usual course of action. So, what is the "purpose" of an older couple seeking marriage. While there are certainly several motivating factors and benefits, does it do anything fertile in the eyes of the church?

Both my grandmothers were widowed fairly young, like myself. Neither sought to remarry and both lived into their 90's. One felt marriage was too much work, the other had already had the love of her life and that was good enough for her. Both fulfilled their obligations of a Catholic marriage. I differ in that I want to marry again. Am I being selfish or is there a purpose in feeling this way?

--hide--


After getting to know you on CM, I seriously doubt you are being selfish about anything, Kathy.


I once heard a deacon talk about why we are drawn to marry. He said (I am paraphrasing because I can't remember his exact words) that we are drawn to marry to experience Christ in our union. It took me a while to think that through, but I finally felt comfortable with what he said and it made sense to me. I think that part of the marriage ceremony says it best, "What therefore what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."


I'll bet you, like me, can think back to your marriage and remember the love of God in it...and I think that is what we are drawn to again. I want that constant marital love in my life again, too. After listening to the deacon's presentation in an RCIA class, I began to feel very comfortable with my desire to marry again some day if God sees fit to bless me again with strong Catholic husband.


Certainly not offered as gospel...Just my two cents.


- Elizabeth

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be careful not to fall into the temptation of using them as an invalid substitution for being open to the propagation of new life through our own fertility. For example, a still fertile couple that decides they are too old to have babies and begins using NFP permanently to prevent such while adopting a child. I realize this isn't what you are suggesting, Beverly; however, it's easy to see how someone might decide to extend your logic.

--hide--
scratchchin Jerry, thanks for the additional discussion, but I have a feeling ONLY YOU would argue the extension of my logic... rolling eyes boggled rose

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Beverly-649723 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: While being open to any or all of these opport...
(Quote) Beverly-649723 said:

Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be careful not to fall into the temptation of using them as an invalid substitution for being open to the propagation of new life through our own fertility. For example, a still fertile couple that decides they are too old to have babies and begins using NFP permanently to prevent such while adopting a child. I realize this isn't what you are suggesting, Beverly; however, it's easy to see how someone might decide to extend your logic.


Jerry, thanks for the additional discussion, but I have a feeling ONLY YOU would argue the extension of my logic...

--hide--

Can you honestly say that given the extent of the moral relativism put forth in these forums?

Dec 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Can you honestly say that given the extent of the moral relativism put forth in these for...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Can you honestly say that given the extent of the moral relativism put forth in these forums?

--hide--
Ok....you and a FEW others....mea culpa....Carry on... soapbox

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