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Devoted to discussion pertaining to those issues which are specifically relevant to people 45+. Topics must have a specific perspective of people in this age group for it to be on topic.

The story of Abraham and Sarah is told in chapters 11-25 of the book of Genesis.
Learn More:Abraham & Sarah

Dec 31st 2012 new
(Quote) Kathy-635104 said: If the purpose of a Catholic marriage, as a unique union between man and woman, is for the propagation of the h...
(Quote) Kathy-635104 said:

If the purpose of a Catholic marriage, as a unique union between man and woman, is for the propagation of the human family and the upbringing of children, where does that leave those of us past childbearing years? Is marriage encouraged or are we called to serve in a different way?

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Eve's first purpose in being created was a suitable partner and helpmate for Adam. Not her only, but her first.
Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: Keep looking, Kathy. It's not a problem even if you're beyond child bearing years. Marriage...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

Keep looking, Kathy. It's not a problem even if you're beyond child bearing years. Marriage can be fruitful in many other ways. If there are no children and you want a child-related activity, there's foster parenting, various organizations that need adult help with youngsters.

The main element is that you are open to life. Child bearing is an important element of marriage, but it isn't the only one.

While you are unmarried there is much you can do to be of service to the Church and your fellow man; the same can be said of a married couple. We see people getting married in their 80's and 90's. My thought about that is "Bless their hearts." Marital love is ageless.

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Thwnks, Ray. I can definitely see myself as a old lady in love, shuffling along with her best guy!

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Beverly-649723 said:The fact that a person is beyond or incapable of producing offspring shouldn't matter to Go...
(Quote) Beverly-649723 said:

The fact that a person is beyond or incapable of producing offspring shouldn't matter to God in our pairing. We can still witness to others a "Godly marriage", respect for Life, and help others (especially our spouse!) get to a more perfect state in preparation for Eternity.

And yes, I think I've heard a voice in the night before--and not just that of the milkman!!

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I love this. Thanks so much, Bev! I can think of so many couples that have been that witness in my own life.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be careful not to fall into the temptation of using them as an invalid substitution for being open to the propagation of new life through our own fertility. For example, a still fertile couple that decides they are too old to have babies and begins using NFP permanently to prevent such while adopting a child. I realize this isn't what you are suggesting, Beverly; however, it's easy to see how someone might decide to extend your logic.

The non-issue of whether those who are no longer fertile can marry seems to be raised, more often than not, by those attempting to discredit the Church's teaching in this area using an appeal to emotion ("Well, if we take this teaching literally then those who are infertile can't marry", suggesting that this can't possibly be true so the entire teaching should be rejected). I'm not suggesting this was Kathy's intent, but I have seen it presented this way even in the CM forums multiple times.

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Having children late in life does present more risks of having a child with health issues as the chromosomes don't always split. Even at 37, I was monitored closely and underwent special tests to determine if my child had Down's Syndrome. While I refused the amnio, knowing I would accept a child in any condition as a gift from God, a couple has to be prepared. As those with special needs children realize, it takes a great deal of energy to care for them. There are also untold blessings.

I hope you know I would never attempt to discredit the church's teachings on marriage. I believe it to be a beautiful expression of Christ's love for us when He is kept at the center. I am also too much of a romantic to think there isn't another love of my life out there somewhere.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said: After getting to know you on CM, I seriously doubt you are being selfish about a...
(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said:


After getting to know you on CM, I seriously doubt you are being selfish about anything, Kathy.


I once heard a deacon talk about why we are drawn to marry. He said (I am paraphrasing because I can't remember his exact words) that we are drawn to marry to experience Christ in our union. It took me a while to think that through, but I finally felt comfortable with what he said and it made sense to me. I think that part of the marriage ceremony says it best, "What therefore what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."


I'll bet you, like me, can think back to your marriage and remember the love of God in it...and I think that is what we are drawn to again. I want that constant marital love in my life again, too. After listening to the deacon's presentation in an RCIA class, I began to feel very comfortable with my desire to marry again some day if God sees fit to bless me again with strong Catholic husband.


Certainly not offered as gospel...Just my two cents.


- Elizabeth

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Thank you, Elizabeth.

Well said.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: Eve's first purpose in being created was a suitable partner and helpmate for Adam. Not her ...
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said:

Eve's first purpose in being created was a suitable partner and helpmate for Adam. Not her only, but her first.
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That's true.

Jan 1st 2013 new

I was wondering the same thing. I have four children ,all grown up and have families of their own. I have moved from mom to grandma time in my life, although I wouldn't run from life with a good man who has children still at home. No one really addressed what you asked about what our role would be in a marriage where we didn't bare children with our significant other. I guess we are to be loving, caring and supportive in whatever we encounter in our relationships.

Jan 1st 2013 new

The two fold purpose of marriage is the salvation and good of the spouses and the bringing forth of new life:

"By its very nature it [marriage] is ordered to the good of the couple, as well as to the generation and education of children. " CCC 1660 (emphasis added)

"Unity, indissolubility, and openness to fertility are essential to marriage." CCC 1664 (emphasis added).

So the first purpose of marriage, the primary purpose, is the good of the spouses. The marriage comes first. What fruit will come from that marriage will be up to God, the author of all life. Not every marriage brings forth children, even when they are fully open to it. The marriage is a a sacramental one just the same.

Even a late in life marriage must be open to children--meaning, no artificial contraception, no continuous use of NFP with no openness to life. Meaning being open to God bringing other children (or service to children) into your lives together.

A late in life marriage is still called to be fruitful. That fruit just might not be biological children of their own.

For me, I struggle not with whether it is allows (of course, it is allowed) but whether marriage is worth it, if it is only for the my good, and not for the generation of life. For me, a marriage that will not include children has an inherent sense of selfishness for me. Built into it, there is a sense of indulgence I guess for me. IT is like the only reason then to get married is to be able to have licit sex (that is not even fruitful, so what is up with that?) And old people sex...ewwww! eyepopping LOL

Not that I have not suffered greatly being on my own all these years, but I don't know, I guess I can still soldier on as I have been doing for decades, for some decades more.

I guess for me I wonder if a childless marriage is worthwhile--to me, to him, to society, to the Church. But I know it is allowed. Just don't know if it is worth it at this point.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be carefu...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

While being open to any or all of these opportunities is certainly admirable, we have to be careful not to fall into the temptation of using them as an invalid substitution for being open to the propagation of new life through our own fertility. For example, a still fertile couple that decides they are too old to have babies and begins using NFP permanently to prevent such while adopting a child. I realize this isn't what you are suggesting, Beverly; however, it's easy to see how someone might decide to extend your logic.

The non-issue of whether those who are no longer fertile can marry seems to be raised, more often than not, by those attempting to discredit the Church's teaching in this area using an appeal to emotion ("Well, if we take this teaching literally then those who are infertile can't marry", suggesting that this can't possibly be true so the entire teaching should be rejected). I'm not suggesting this was Kathy's intent, but I have seen it presented this way even in the CM forums multiple times.

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I agree.

And it can be tempting when your kids are all grown (considering the new found free time) to want to close the door on being open to your own fertility.

Jan 1st 2013 new

I read a ong time ago that the desire for marriage and being called to marriage has been placed on our hearts by God Himself, we ust need to trust and believe and pray, knowing that in His time He will answer our prayers, I have a friend on here, past chilbearing years who is engaged to be married this year, neither had been married before and both are in their 50's, my friend even told me she had almost lost hope in finding the man she did...so...GOD ANSWERS OUR PRAYERS....propagation may not part of their marriage or for those over a certain age, but it doesn't mean that the Lord doesn't want them together...'whereever two or more are gathered....' a married childless couple can do a lot of work for the Kingdom. Just saying!

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