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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Jan 6th 2013 new

I realize John mentioned one specific person and that may not be so great.

But I do think there are a number of people who leave the church because 'they feel they are a bunch of hypocrites.'

For example, this true story, of a young chaste guy with a girlfriend who is Catholic, but she ends up sleeping with someone else.

He sees her go to church, and then he says they are just a bunch of hypocrites - and he leaves the church. He is young and just deciding on whether to go to church or not.

What do you say to that guy? He feels like a fool to have saved himself for someone and for acting virtuously in the relationship.

Or as the story continues, he ends up dating someone that is not Catholic and at least is not a hypocrite.

John don't lose heart, all people are sinners but hopefully God is perfecting us.








Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Why take the moral inventory of others? God doesn't call you or me to do that. G...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Why take the moral inventory of others? God doesn't call you or me to do that. God calls us to be holy ourselves. Personally I'm glad that one woman you called a "hypocrite" comes to Church every Sunday after her wild Saturday.. There's still hope for her.


Remember the parable Jesus tells in the Gospel of Luke:


He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Lk 18:9-14)


Think about this.


There willalways be sin in the world. There will always be falsely devout people. Our job is to be holy because it is only by being holy that we finction as leaven and salt in the world. Finger-pointing, fault-finding, and judging won't bring you or me or anyone else closer to Christ. But living well ourselves and treating allwith love and dignity will accomplish much.



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David you took the words out of my mouth. St. Josemaria Escrivia would often say this common old Catholic phrase. THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I. I often remind my self that outside of God's grace I am every unvirtuous person in the world. Since it is God's grace and not me that is the source of anything good in me, how can allow myself to be prideful. We should not encourage her in her sin as that would also not be charitable but it is certainly not our place to condemn her. The sacraments to make her better are right there in the Church. If she did not come she would have no chance to receive them.

Also, my advice would be to never allow your faith to be based on anything but God. Humans waiver and feelings change so we cannot rely on them as a source or foundation of our faith. God always has to be. If someone else said this as I did not read the whole thread, I apologize. I certainly hope that I did not come off as being uncharitable to you in any way but I think that you may want to consider changing your view point.

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: This happens at my church too -- people we know have been publically sinning on Saturday night a...
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

This happens at my church too -- people we know have been publically sinning on Saturday night and then unrepentantly serving as lectors, etc and publically receiving the Holy Eucharist the next morning when there has been no time for confession and it happens every week so there is no repentance in actions -- these are stumbling blocks for many people as they watch the hypocracy and question their faith in God and our Church. Yes, our church is a hospital for sinners, but many people 'refuse treatment' other than a quick bandaid for appearancessake.


A virtuous person puts more thought and effort into pleasing God and trying to follow the commandments and live as Christ, loving our neighbors wherever and whenever we find them.

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we should just mind our own business and focus on being holy ourselves. god allows good and bad in the church for a reason. we should not become a bunch of meddlers and tattle tales - unless we want to drive our poor priest into a rubber room.


listen to the words of our lord:

He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?' He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; 11 then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

- Mt 13:24-30

well??? anyone want to argue with this?
Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: David you took the words out of my mouth. St. Josemaria Escrivia would often say this common old ...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

David you took the words out of my mouth. St. Josemaria Escrivia would often say this common old Catholic phrase. THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I. I often remind my self that outside of God's grace I am every unvirtuous person in the world. Since it is God's grace and not me that is the source of anything good in me, how can allow myself to be prideful. We should not encourage her in her sin as that would also not be charitable but it is certainly not our place to condemn her. The sacraments to make her better are right there in the Church. If she did not come she would have no chance to receive them.

Also, my advice would be to never allow your faith to be based on anything but God. Humans waiver and feelings change so we cannot rely on them as a source or foundation of our faith. God always has to be. If someone else said this as I did not read the whole thread, I apologize. I certainly hope that I did not come off as being uncharitable to you in any way but I think that you may want to consider changing your view point.

--hide--


Thanks so much Shara! St Josemaria Escriva is a hero of mine. I was in "the work" for many years. Got much of my formation in Opus Dei.


We all need to stop fussing about the people around us. The holier we ourselves become, the better the world around us becomes. Simple as that. Witch hunts, gosspiing, tattling, and so-called "fraternal corrections" are usually nothing more than pride, spite, envy, and ego. All things we should try to remove from our beings, not nurture and strengthen.



Jan 7th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: we should just mind our own business and focus on being holy ourselves. god allows g...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


we should just mind our own business and focus on being holy ourselves. god allows good and bad in the church for a reason. we should not become a bunch of meddlers and tattle tales - unless we want to drive our poor priest into a rubber room.


listen to the words of our lord:

He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?' He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; 11 then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

- Mt 13:24-30

well??? anyone want to argue with this?

--hide--


David -- I'm not one of the ones talking and gossiping about these people (except anonymously here on this forum) -- I'm only saying that they are stumbling blocks to many trying to grow in their faith but seeing so much hypocrisy AND/OR that they are used as excuses to not go to church by many people because they say they don't want to associate with these sinners. I view them with a more forgiving mind -- there but for the Grace of God go I. I hear it, I see it, I pray, I go about my business trying to overcome temptations and do right and guide my children to God, I live and let live. I'm not paying attention to or searching out the filings of others because it's not my business and I try to back away from anyone gossiping, but it can be unavoidable (my mother), but usually my eyes are closed in prayer and I don't see it unless it is thrown in my face.

Jan 7th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Thanks so much Shara! St Josemaria Escriva is a hero of mine. I was in "the wor...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Thanks so much Shara! St Josemaria Escriva is a hero of mine. I was in "the work" for many years. Got much of my formation in Opus Dei.


We all need to stop fussing about the people around us. The holier we ourselves become, the better the world around us becomes. Simple as that. Witch hunts, gosspiing, tattling, and so-called "fraternal corrections" are usually nothing more than pride, spite, envy, and ego. All things we should try to remove from our beings, not nurture and strengthen.



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David I knew that there was something special about you. biggrin

I agree. While admonishing the sinner is a work of mercy it should always be done in a spirit of love. We should always examine our motive in the correction and if it is anything other than I love that person and want so much for them to go to heaven we should stop. If that is truly our motive then there is a way to do it and a process that always involves intense prayer and a spirit of deep humility.True virtue looks inward to weed out sin in ourselves in order to radiate Christ more to others. It never seeks to exalt itself above the sinner. We should also never be concerned about what people think about our friends but of what God thinks of us and how we are working with him to get them to heaven. Don't let others or your desire to please others cause you to fall into the trap of becoming self-righteous. Love, love, love

I once heard a beautiful sermon on fraternal correction and it centered on Christ's intervention in the stoning of the adultress and how it serves as a perfect example of what true fraternal correction ( there are many distorted forms out there) should be.

He starts examining how Christ stumbles upon the scene and and takes in what is going on. He then forces himself into the middle of the circle where the lady is standing and begins to write in the sand. Can you imagine the crowd standing there calling for blood and then this guy comes and forces himself in the center and begins to, of all things, write in the sand? The crowd must have been confused and wondering what he was doing and that was his entire purpose; to take the attention away from the woman's action to his. We therefore should always seek not to expose the sin of the sinner or try to expose them to cencure by slander even when true but to approach in prayer and be private whenever possible in our approach. Then Jesus, now after getting their attention, asks the one without sin to throw the first stone. They of course all leave. That is a lesson of how we should approach by first examining our selves that we may approach the situation with all humility by recognizing our own sinfulness. He then goes through the process of telling her who she is and where she is from which can be confusing. He is really letting her know that he knows who she is, that she is not a stranger to him and that he loves her. Therefore, we should always get to know someone in order to be able to approach them in love and friendship unless it is a grave sin that will cause immediate peril of their soul and others. The final thing he did do was to tell her what her sin was and why it was bad for her and then he tells her that the action must stop. " Go and sin no more" So while admonishing the sinner is a work of mercy, it should be done in a spirit of mercy for it to be charitable and mirror Christ's action.

THERE, BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, GO I.

Jan 8th 2013 new

i like modern american women.


there are many good, intelligent, virtuous, strong, modern american women out there. women today are no less virtuous than women of your grandmother's era. give grandma a couple glasses of sherry and get her talking. you'll be surprised.


why fear them?

Jan 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: Do all the rumor mongers at church also watch to see if she gets up to recieve communion ins...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

Do all the rumor mongers at church also watch to see if she gets up to recieve communion instead of preparing themselves to receive communion?

Do you know for a fact that this woman has one night stands? Have you witnessed it with your own eyes? Have you tried to talk to her about it in a caring, compassionate way instead of just being disgusted by it and calling her a hypocrite? Perhaps she has a problem or an addiction. Maybe if you talked TO her instead of ABOUT her, you can help her change- if what you're hearing is even the truth.
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You are THE BEST!!!! Thank you for saying this!!! rose

Jan 8th 2013 new
(Quote) David-364112 said: You are THE BEST!!!! Thank you for saying this!!!
(Quote) David-364112 said:




You are THE BEST!!!! Thank you for saying this!!!

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Gracie paisan. You're the best too.
Jan 10th 2013 new
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