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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Mark-495813 said: I agree with Patrick. Say I were to choose the priesthood when God created m...
(Quote) Mark-495813 said:


I agree with Patrick. Say I were to choose the priesthood when God created me to get married, or the other way around. Both are holy and beautiful choices, so maybe I am not doing exactly what God created me to do. Yhat doesn't mean I wont receive blessings and graces from God

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and that's just it. We made a choice based on our free will. Since we don't really know what Gods will is for us, we make a choice. Now, determining between good and evil, then yes, if we choose knowingly to do evil, then it is a sin, but really, when it comes to real life situatuions that, either way you look at it, are good intentions, then all we are practicing is our gift of free will. It's not really that hard to figure out, do I want to date this girl, well no, not my type, but I would like to date this other girl. But in reality,. how do we know which one God choose for us?? we don't, therefore that act of free will is not a sin. Again, if we knew who we were supposed to be with, and where we're supposed to be at in life, then all this would be predestination, and not free will.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: Okay time to answer! First of all Patrick you make a good point. I agree with you that our choi...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:

Okay time to answer! First of all Patrick you make a good point. I agree with you that our choice for a spouse is not sinful but the exercise of free will. But as Andrea picked up on in spite of my muddled statement about it, that is exactly my point. I don't think there is "one person" that God puts in my life and if I miss him I have thwarted His will. In fact I think that this idea that we have to find "the one" has made the decision for marriage a lot more difficult for a lot of people and is probably why many have hesitated in choosing a spouse because they have a misguided (and overly romantic) view that the person they marry must fulfill every desire and expectation they have. The fact is, only GOD can do that! People are expecting from another frail human being something they can only find in God. It would make it a lot easier to find a spouse if instead of asking, "Is this the one?" they would ask, "Is this someone whom I can grow with, who respects me and I can communicate with so that we can get each other to heaven?" A marriage based on these questions is much more likely to succeed because the expectations are based in reality rather than on a conflated romantic concept. Think of all the successful arranged marriages in history - on no level can we say that this was part of God's ordained plan. But we can say as Scripture does, "God works all things to the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose." Rom 8:28. God will teach you how to LOVE no matter who your spouse is, or what your vocation in life is.

However, I would maintain as Elizabeth states that to thwart God's will is a sin. And just to clarify, God's will as I understand it is not so specific as our choice of a spouse, but His will is always ordered to the Good, to Truth and to Love. If we freely choose against these things with full knowledge of what we are choosing against then we have knowingly contravened God's law of LOVE, which is a rejection of His will for us.

I think the danger of such a black and white view of God's will, that we would think that God has a very rigid map for our lives that we must discover with our limited abilities, is that it doesn't respect another aspect of who God is - and that is that God is Eternal and not subject to time. Meaning that God exists in an "Eternal Now" and sees our lives - past, present and future - in that Eternal Now. Essentially when we say that it's "God's will" for us to marry a specific person, that is a notion akin to predestination, an idea that originated in the philosophy of nominalism and gained a foothold in the Christian world in the Protestant Reformation.

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actually Kristen,. it originated well before this, actually back in St Pauls time when he wrote to the Ephesians.. "...As he chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in His sight in charity. Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the purpose of His will..." He also writes..." For whom He foreknew, He predestinated...

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: Thanks everyone for your responses - and thanks for exposing the muddled parts of my statement ...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:

Thanks everyone for your responses - and thanks for exposing the muddled parts of my statement so quickly. Andrea, I really enjoyed the video - so cool! I think I'm going to watch the other ones too! I am going to answer clarify what I meant fully later today when I have more time, but the short answer to all of the excellent points made is that I agree with all of them, but need further articulate how they all fit together. Hope to hear some other perspectives on God's will out there!

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Kristen, you make a good point in asking us to write it down, our perspective on God's will. :) I haven't done that before... but I'll give it a go.

I think God's will for me is to love the people that he puts in my path (those are my neighbors). Like in the bible, if I am walking down the road and I see someone in need of some assistance - I am called to give/to love, to see that person as a child of God. I think I am to care and use wisely the gifts (people,places,things) and talents he has given to me.

And how does that really apply to a potential spouse? I will stumble upon that person and it will be obvious. wave

You'll answer that spouse one for me, won't you Kristen?

Jan 1st 2013 new

Wow, all kinds of posts I missed just showed up.

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Andrea-368827 said: Kristen, you make a good point in asking us to write it down, our perspective on God...
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said:

Kristen, you make a good point in asking us to write it down, our perspective on God's will. :) I haven't done that before... but I'll give it a go.

I think God's will for me is to love the people that he puts in my path (those are my neighbors). Like in the bible, if I am walking down the road and I see someone in need of some assistance - I am called to give/to love, to see that person as a child of God. I think I am to care and use wisely the gifts (people,places,things) and talents he has given to me.

And how does that really apply to a potential spouse? I will stumble upon that person and it will be obvious.

You'll answer that spouse one for me, won't you Kristen?

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Andrea, you sound like a really wonderful, loving person. I hope that God puts a wonderful, loving man in your path and that both of you realize the gift that is placed before you! God bless you!

Jan 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: Andrea, you sound like a really wonderful, loving person. I hope that God puts a wonder...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:



Andrea, you sound like a really wonderful, loving person. I hope that God puts a wonderful, loving man in your path and that both of you realize the gift that is placed before you! God bless you!

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Thanks Kristen, I like the answer. You also remind me that there are loving men that I have in my life. My single brother who is 2.5 yrs. older - my favorite guy and to be more loving towards my Dad. In the same way that God doesn't choose one person for us to marry, he still provides people for us to love.

Jan 1st 2013 new

A priest taught me how to deal with the quandry of discernment. Let's say a situation comes up and an important decision must be made. I would pray, "Lord, I need to know what to do here. But I want to do your will." Often, a decision would begin to formulate even as I'm praying, so then I continue, "Lord, here's my idea...Now, I don't know if this is actually your will, but my desire is to do your will. So, this is what I am going to do. If it is your will, bless my efforts. If it is not, block it and direct me along the right path." The prayer is a little convoluted, but what I've done is placed the whole mess in His hands, while at the same time not becoming "frozen" waiting for neon signs and cats and dogs raining from heaven as a sign. The best way to move forward in the spiritual life, a relationship, or anything else is, in fact, to move forward. And in great confidence of God's paternal love.

People cross our paths for a reason, sometimes just fleetingly, but we always learn from the experience and hopefully, grow more loving in the process.

Jan 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-235584 said: actually Kristen,. it originated well before this, actually back in St P...
(Quote) Patrick-235584 said:


actually Kristen,. it originated well before this, actually back in St Pauls time when he wrote to the Ephesians.. "...As he chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in His sight in charity. Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the purpose of His will..." He also writes..." For whom He foreknew, He predestinated...

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Certainly the word was around before the Reformation, but the predestination I am referring to is that as articulated by Calvin and other Reformed Christians. In order to understand the meaning of Scripture passages, it is important to understand the passage within the whole of the Sacred Deposit of Divine Revelation. Here's an article you might be interested in on the differences between Calvinist predestination and the Catholic view:www.catholic.com. Hope you enjoy it!


Jan 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: And one more thing - when people state that in order to fulfill "God's will" we c...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:

And one more thing - when people state that in order to fulfill "God's will" we can't have so many expectations that we rule out tons of people who could be a good match, a better way to say it would be that we shouldn't have so many expectations because expectations are not based in reality. Some of our expectations are an attempt to control the future (like trying to marry a much younger woman solely because the odds are better for having children - no one is guaranteed to be able to conceive), or are based on false concepts that a frail human person can't meet, and sometimes are indications of a lack of self-knowledge (perhaps we cannot attract the type of person we expect to marry and are ignoring those might be most compatible).

Looking forward to some lively debate!

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Now this is the troublesome part - expectations, criteria, and all that. Is it right to have expectations? Where and when are expectations appropriate or not? If I expect to marry a Catholic, should it be phrased differently? If giving is loving then are expectations loving at all ?

Jan 2nd 2013 new

(Quote) Kristen-878108 said: Certainly the word was around before the Reformation, but the predestination I am r...
(Quote) Kristen-878108 said:




Certainly the word was around before the Reformation, but the predestination I am referring to is that as articulated by Calvin and other Reformed Christians. In order to understand the meaning of Scripture passages, it is important to understand the passage within the whole of the Sacred Deposit of Divine Revelation. Here's an article you might be interested in on the differences between Calvinist predestination and the Catholic view//www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/predestined-for-freedom. Hope you enjoy it!

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reading a book right now on predestination by Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange.

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