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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Jan 9th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: maybe it's time to find out. (for the record, i tend to agree with yo...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


maybe it's time to find out.


(for the record, i tend to agree with you. charismatic is not my worship style, but done right, it must have many good characteristics for the people to whom it appeals. otherwise three pontiffs wouldn't have praised it.)

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I just looked some things up along this line:

From what I can see, Pope Paul VI never "embraced" the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, but rather said about some charismatic conference that it was a "chance" or "opportunity" for the Church. That's pretty vague.

Pope John Paul II made some comments about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in 1998, but didn't go so far as to embrace it that I can see. Rather, it seems, that he saw some benefit being possibly derived from the movement by the Church and stated his hopes for the future in that regard from what he's quoted as saying. He promotes the obedient acceptance of charisms, but does not promote the "charismatic movement."

And...regarding Pope Benedict XVI, it seems that people are trying to retro-actively apply Papal authority to statements he made from the office of Cardinal as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. I did not find a single statement actually embracing the Catholic Charismatic Renewal coming from him after he ascended to the Papacy. That said, I did find some statements which, from the Pope, seem to be encouraging regarding specific points which are valued by the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, though certainly not exclusive to it.

I don't doubt there are good points or characteristics which are found in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, but I think from what I've experienced in it, there's not much good about it.

Jan 11th 2013 new

Avoiding sarcasm isn't easy for you is it?

I would like to point out that, the judgment of those 3 Popes were in no way binding upon the Church. How many other legitimate rites are there in the Church???

From every conference, event, I've attended, been a part of and seen on the internet is the "crazymatic" style of worship. Whenever you see a catholic prayer group, or conference, you see people falling all over themselves, babbling on in supposed "tongues" which no one understands, jumping around like maniacs, laughing hysterically for no apparent reason (other than being drunk on themselves), and generally dis-respecting the house of the Lord. It looks more like a love in or a drug party than a Catholic service. And when you do see a group that isn't acting in this way, it has been stripped of all life, and resembles one of those poor children's shows, where everybody is okay and everything must be "nice".

Your claim that charasmatic worship resembles the church of the early time, is just outright incorrect, put down your "spirit of vatican 2 book". The church was under heavy persecution for a long time, they were just a tad more concerned with the things of everyday life, promoting the gospel, and surviving. I mean for crying out loud, do you think Paul wrote those letters because he liked picking a bone with people?

As far as I can tell those people who would wander off because they can't have "charismatic worship" just illustrates that they have checked out long ago and coasting on sugar.

Jan 11th 2013 new
www.archdpdx.org
Jan 11th 2013 new
Joe,

I have been part of the charismatic movement since I was a teenager. I see it like this: in the catholic church we are very wealthy in different ways to express our spirituality. There are Marians, contemplative, blessed heart congregation, cursillistas, etc. The fact that I am a catholic makes me very proud because of our diversity of spiritual expression.

This summer God granted me the gift of traveling to Israel. At the same place where the catholic church was born because the Holy Spirit was sent to the apostle in that upper room. That day we had a second penthecost. There was a group of 50 people from Croetia and we were from the USA (Hispanics). They were singing some charismatic song in their language and we started singing it in Spanish. They were all sitting down and they had to stand up. The presence of the Holy Spirit was so alive, it was amazing. At the end of the song, we all started hugging each other and taking pictures and exchanging information. We have never met before. Only the Holy Spirit, the one who was present when Mary conceived Jesus in her womb, the same one that was present when Jesus was baptized, was there that day in Israel and any other day when a group of people is gathered and asked for His presence, for God's presence. It is the same Holy Spirit that have guided the church for 2,000's of years. It is the same Holy Spirit that will guide the catholic church until the second coming of Jesus.

Jesus was able to heal, cast out demond, etc. He said it himself, in my name, you will be able to do these things and more. People used to get healed when Peter's shadow touched them. It was because Peter had the presence of God in Him. The samething the apostles and Jesus did we are able to do it today. That's why there are healings happening, casting of demonds, cure of addiction, cure of depression, etc. in these charismatics gatherings.

I belong to two groups, one group has been meeting for 40's years. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are clear and discerned. I love to praise and worship God in this wonderful group of loving people. I also attend the Spanish community prayer group. We just started one year ago. On both groups we have spiritual directors, for the English we have a priest and for the Spanish we have a deacon. We have a yearly mass on Penthecost day in the cathedral where our Bishops lead this celebration.

In the bible it says, we are Philips, or Jame's, or Peter's, or... we all belong to Jesus, we all belong to God. It will be better if we all learn how to respect our individual spirituality than to put it down or degrading it. We are different parts, but one body, the church, the body of the childre of God. We are all catholics.
Jan 12th 2013 new

Most charismatics I've known have been theologically orthodox and Biblically literate - much more so than "run-of-the-mill" Catholics. I was part of a charismatic prayer meeting for five years. I much prefer the Tridentine or Eastern Catholic rites but if I'm forced to participate in the Novo Ordo then give me charismatics any day of the week.

Jan 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: www.archdpdx.org
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: www.archdpdx.org
--hide--

I'm familiar with what Pope John Paul II is quoted as saying here. It's also evident to anyone who reads it that much has been added between the lines by the compiler of the website. Still, there is no explicit (or implicit, that I can see) "embracing" of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

Jan 12th 2013 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I'm familiar with what Pope John Paul II is quoted as saying here. It's also evident...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I'm familiar with what Pope John Paul II is quoted as saying here. It's also evident to anyone who reads it that much has been added between the lines by the compiler of the website. Still, there is no explicit (or implicit, that I can see) "embracing" of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

--hide--


Kind of hard NOT to embrace something you are telling all Catholics to do.

"Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Whenever the Spirit intervenes, he leaves people astonished. He brings about events of amazing newness; he radically changes persons and history. This was the unforgettable experience of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council during which, under the guidance of the same Spirit, the Church rediscovered the charismatic dimension as one of her constitutive elements. . . The institutional and charismatic aspects are co-essential as it were to the Church's constitution. They contribute, although differently, to the life, renewal and sanctification of God's People. It is from the providential rediscovery of the Church's charismatic dimension that, before and after the Council, a remarkable pattern of growth has been established for ecclesial movements and new communities. . . .

"You present here are the tangible proof of this outpouring of the Spirit . . . Today I would like to cry out to all of you gathered here in St. Peter's Square and to all Christians: Open yourselves docilely to the gifts of the Spirit! Accept gratefully and obediently the charisms which the Spirit never ceases to bestow on us!
Jan 12th 2013 new
(Quote) Stewart-821725 said: Avoiding sarcasm isn't easy for you is it? I would like to point out that, the judg...
(Quote) Stewart-821725 said:

Avoiding sarcasm isn't easy for you is it?



I would like to point out that, the judgment of those 3 Popes were in no way binding upon the Church. How many other legitimate rites are there in the Church???



From every conference, event, I've attended, been a part of and seen on the internet is the "crazymatic" style of worship. Whenever you see a catholic prayer group, or conference, you see people falling all over themselves, babbling on in supposed "tongues" which no one understands, jumping around like maniacs, laughing hysterically for no apparent reason (other than being drunk on themselves), and generally dis-respecting the house of the Lord. It looks more like a love in or a drug party than a Catholic service. And when you do see a group that isn't acting in this way, it has been stripped of all life, and resembles one of those poor children's shows, where everybody is okay and everything must be "nice".



Your claim that charasmatic worship resembles the church of the early time, is just outright incorrect, put down your "spirit of vatican 2 book". The church was under heavy persecution for a long time, they were just a tad more concerned with the things of everyday life, promoting the gospel, and surviving. I mean for crying out loud, do you think Paul wrote those letters because he liked picking a bone with people?



As far as I can tell those people who would wander off because they can't have "charismatic worship" just illustrates that they have checked out long ago and coasting on sugar.

--hide--


Yet you do what you accuse him of? Sarcastically insulting people you don't even know.

Scripture tell us (Lam 3:41, Ps 47, Ps 63, Ps 134, Ps 149 Ps 150, Ex 15:20 ) to praise God with raised hands, music and dance. King David stripped and danced before the Lord (2 Sam 6:14) and here is one that, by your own words, should ring true for you, " . . . and Michal (his wife) despised him in her heart 2 Sam 6:15. But read the conversation between David and Micah in 2 Sam 6:20-22.

So if I am a fool, then I am a fool in worship of my God and in accordance with His Holy Word. Do not judge the actions of the Holy Spirit, for even Michal had no children because of her comments to David.

And just to let you know . . . it is not another "rite."
Jan 12th 2013 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I'm familiar with what Pope John Paul II is quoted as saying here. It's also evident...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I'm familiar with what Pope John Paul II is quoted as saying here. It's also evident to anyone who reads it that much has been added between the lines by the compiler of the website. Still, there is no explicit (or implicit, that I can see) "embracing" of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

--hide--


The Pope INVITED the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (along with other movements) to Rome. I have friends who received invitations from Pope John Paul and were there. He made his remarks in St. Peters square to those he had invited and to the whole Christian community.
Jan 12th 2013 new

I'm a convert to the Catholic Church and it was the charismatic renewal that brought me into the Church. My family was going to a charismatic/non-denominational congregation in my teen years and I had heard about the charismatic renewal in the Church and was interested in finding out what it was about. That led me to my future godmother, a Dominican Sister, who was very involved in the renewal group. She helped answer questions for me and showed me the love of Christ and was a witness to a holiness I had not encourted before.

After becoming Catholic I didn't participate too much in the renewal group and now I wouldn't consider myself charismatic. I have seen both good and bad in the charismatic circles. I don't think it's for everyone. God will speak to us in different ways. I am now more traditional in my approach to Catholicism, but I am thankful for the experiences I have had.

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