(Quote) David-364112 said:
I'm no church liberal. No loosey goosey "spirit of Vatican II" Catholic. Never have...
(Quote) David-364112 said:
I'm no church liberal. No loosey goosey "spirit of Vatican II" Catholic. Never have been, never will be. My preference in worship is reverent and deeply personal. Sometimes I'm given the grace of tears during the Consecration. If it happens I bow my head so no one sees. No ostyentatious display. Just deep love. If Charismatics worship with the force of the Holy Spirit, then good on them. Look at the tone you've adopted to describe people of deep faith. Is this right? Is this charitable?
Just a caveat, I'm somewhat new to the topic, but what makes me most skeptical is the charismatic movement (I agree it is not a "rite") that 1) It is new and untried, as John and a few others have mentioned, and the Church is very circumspect about these things 2) the fact that it removes the emphasis from God and adoration of Him to focusing on humans and their levels/manifestations of God's grace. and 3) the idea that this emotional feeling and response is a sign of faith/grace/God's love etc. Does this mean that those who do not manifest in the ways charismatics do are not recipients or not equal recipients of God's love and grace and that He is not working in their lives?
I am not denying that some people may have very powerful experiences with faith, or may manifest their joy in some of the ways describved, but for it to be such a central focus of one's spiritual life strikes me as not only unhealthy, but dangerous.
Even the greatest saints have had "dark nights of the soul". St. Francis de Sales was at one point so confused over a heretical teaching that was sweeping his area (The Calvinistic doctrine of predestination, if I recall correctly, and the Calvinists also believed that God's decision was reflected in the person's material and physical wellbeing while on earth, which strikes me as somewhat like charismatics' belief that His favor/grace/love are reflected outwardly so often) that he prayed to Our Lady that even if he WAS destined to spend eternity in Hell cursing God's name, he be granted a long life on earth with which to praise Him, regardless of how spiritually abandoned he felt. THAT is faith. and grace. How would that have turned out had St. Frances been fully entrenched in the charismatic tradition? "Oh, I don't feel God, He must not love me." ?? The emphasis on feelings rather than truth seems to me to be very shaky ground. Satans knows our frail human hearts and motivations SO well, he can surely manipulate them for his own ends. God loves us, even when we can't feel it, and the Holy Ghost is in us if we are in a state of grace. How we poor mortals feel at any given moment is of little consequence except to ourselves.