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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Jan 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Marian-83994 said: You make a good point. That is why there has to be the authority of a good priest (as a s...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:



You make a good point. That is why there has to be the authority of a good priest (as a spiritual director) and people who are not into showing off- involved in these meetings. Not all of it is a" show" so to speak. I like Fr. Rippereger (Rippenger?).

Many people eventually "grew away" from the Charismatic expression but it provided something fto them for a time of growing in the faith. Some people did not find a continued growth I imagine, but it did help build community for many others.

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That has been my thought as well... Many times Our Lord uses the charismatic gifts to get a souls attention which can be quite a powerful experience. The soul remains there for a while for healing & strength before moving on to other areas of faith within our Church. Others may be called to the Charismatic Renewal for life. This is what's so wonderful about being Catholic... It's universal & bears numerous expression. It's like a diamond of many facets, each pane reflecting another aspect of God's love & beauty. There are many paths to reach ultimate union with Christ, & the charismatic gifts are just one of them... IMHO rose

Jan 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Tim-734178 said: Donna. Im not saying it was as I have no authority in this area, but demons can provide information too. P...
(Quote) Tim-734178 said: Donna. Im not saying it was as I have no authority in this area, but demons can provide information too. Problem with emotions, demons can and do stir them up. Fr. Rippereger has some great talks on this.
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You are right on this Tim, that there can be the wrong type of influences stirring people up in the wrong ways. But this can be present in any area of the Church, or life itself for that matter. As others have mentioned, the willingness to submit oneself to the magestarium of the church is key... both personally and as groups or movements. Charismatics as well as Traditional Latin Mass people must follow the lead of their bishop & the priests he assigns to guide them. This obedience is the safety net which serves to keep souls on the proper course.

I have wittnessed much good from both movements. But because we are fragile human creatures I have also wittnessed excesses & abuse in both of them as well. Where I live there is a great respect for church authority & the Holy Father so somehow, problmatic things have a way of ironing themselves out. Heaven knows Our Lord needs people of zeal... even if at first they might not get it quite right... IMHO rose rose rose

Jan 13th 2013 new

First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians Chapter 14

www.drbo.org

The gift of prophesying is to be preferred before that of speaking strange tongues.

[1]Follow after charity, be zealous for spiritual gifts; but rather that you may prophesy. [2] For he that speaketh in a tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man heareth. Yet by the Spirit he speaketh mysteries.[3] But he that prophesieth, speaketh to men unto edification, and exhortation, and comfort.[4] He that speaketh in a tongue, edifieth himself: but he that prophesieth, edifieth the church.[5] And I would have you all to speak with tongues, but rather to prophesy. For greater is he that prophesieth, than he that speaketh with tongues: unless perhaps he interpret, that the church may receive edification.

1st Commentary [1]Prophesy: That is, declare or expound the mysteries of faith. End of Commentary.

2nd Commentary [2] Not unto men: Viz., so as to be heard, that is, so as to be understood by them. End of Commentary.

[6]But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in doctrine?[7]Even things without life that give sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction of sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?[8]For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?[9]So likewise you, except you utter by the tongue plain speech, how shall it be known what is said? For you shall be speaking into the air.[10]There are, for example, so many kinds of tongues in this world; and none is without voice.

[11]If then I know not the power of the voice, I shall be to him to whom I speak a barbarian; and he that speaketh, a barbarian to me. [12]So you also, forasmuch as you are zealous of spirits, seek to abound unto the edifying of the church.[13] And therefore he that speaketh by a tongue, let him pray that he may interpret.[14] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit.[15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, I will sing also with the understanding.

3rd Commentary [12] Of spirits: Of spiritual gifts End of Commentary.

[16]Else if thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say, Amen, to thy blessing? because he knoweth not what thou sayest.[17] For thou indeed givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.[18] I thank my God I speak with all your tongues.[19] But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue.[20] Brethren, do not become children in sense: but in malice be children, and in sense be perfect.

4th Commentary [16]Amen: The unlearned, not knowing that you are then blessing, will not be qualified to join with you by saying Amen to your blessing. The use or abuse of strange tongues, of which the apostle here speaks, does not regard the public liturgy of the church, (in which strange tongues were never used,) but certain conferences of the faithful, ver. 26, etc., in which, meeting together, they discovered to one another their various miraculous gifts of the Spirit, common in those primitive times; amongst which the apostle prefers that of prophesying before that of speaking strange tongues, because it was more to the public edification. Where also not, that the Latin, used in our liturgy, is so far from being a strange or unknown tongue, that it is perhaps the best known tongue in the world. End of Commentary.

[21]In the law it is written: In other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and neither so will they hear me, saith the Lord.[22]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers; but prophecies not to unbelievers, but to believers.[23]If therefore the whole church come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in unlearned persons or infidels, will they not say that you are mad?[24]But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or an unlearned person, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.[25]The secrets of his heart are made manifest; and so, falling down on his face, he will adore God, affirming that God is among you indeed.

[26]How is it then, brethren? When you come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation: let all things be done to edification.[27]If any speak with a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and in course, and let one interpret.[28]But if there be no interpreter, let him hold his peace in the church, and speak to himself and to God.[29]And let the prophets speak, two or three; and let the rest judge.[30]But if any thing be revealed to another sitting, let the first hold his peace.

[31]For you may all prophesy one by one; that all may learn, and all may be exhorted:[32]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[33]For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints.[34]Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.[35]But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

[36]Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you?[37]If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord.[38]But if any man know not, he shall not be known.[39]Wherefore, brethren, be zealous to prophesy; and forbid not to speak with tongues.[40]But let all things be done decently, and according to order.

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I believe the meaning of speaking in tongues as in the charismatic movements of these days means something completely different than what it meant in the days of the Apostles 2,000 years ago. I believe in the days of the Apostles speaking in tongues simply meant to speak in a different language. In 1 Corinthians 14:18 Saint Paul says "I thank my God I speak with all your tongues", as in all your languages. In the 4th Commentary above it refers to the Latin language as being used in our liturgy, where strange tongues (languages) were never used. Latin remains the main official language of the Holy See and the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

Questions for charismatics (those that "speak in tongues"). If 1 Corinthians 14:22 says "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers" then why are you "speaking in tongues" in church where there are only believers? Referring to 1 Corinthians 14:23, if outsiders heard you "speaking in tongues" do you not think that they would "say that you are mad?" Referring to 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 (and elsewhere in 1 Corinthians 14 where it mentions interpret or plain speech) when you "speak in tongues" is there an interpreter there to translate what you just said?

Jan 14th 2013 new

Hi Joe,

I am Charismatic and my Catholic Charismatic (God's Love) Prayer Community give much love and respect to Mother Mary. We pray the Holy Rosary everyday. We had a Congress in Kuwait where all the Charismatic Catholic prayer communities gathered joyfully, praising God. One of the speakers mentioned that we should ensure that we give the Catholich Church the highest respect and compliance. I did not understand this when he said that at the time. As we, in our group, works in harmony with the Parish... It is like, we are in One Family.. It's a beautiful, joyful feeling..

I grew up as a traditional Catholic.. I did not know the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit till I experienced the Life in the Spirit Seminar, where I was baptized in His Spirit... my life has never been the same from then on..

Bless you.

Jan 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Kat-881112 said: I grew up as a traditional Catholic.. I did not know the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit till I expe...
(Quote) Kat-881112 said:

I grew up as a traditional Catholic.. I did not know the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit till I experienced the Life in the Spirit Seminar, where I was baptized in His Spirit... my life has never been the same from then on..

Bless you.

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If you grew up as a Catholic, were you not baptized as a child? And if so, why were you baptized a second time? Christian baptism is Trinitarian (in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. What does it mean to be baptized in "His Spirit" (apparently omitting the Father and Son)?

Jan 14th 2013 new

Hi Jerry

I was born in Catholic Faith, my parents were Catholic. I was baptized in the Catholic Church when I was a month old (I think) baby...

I studied elementary in public school where I can't even remember if Religion was taught then.. I never really know of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit.. I know Them by tradition... but did not really have a 'relationship'. However, I have always felt the loving presence of The Father. I remember conversing with Our Father when I was in high school, asking Him why do I have to go to His Son when I could directly communicate to HIM? And who is the Holy Ghost?, I asked.. "Father, is the Holy Ghost a ghost?, is He scary?" LOL

Prior to being baptized by the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Charismatic Community Prayer Group, I attended their prayer sessions/meetings once to twice a week or whenever there was a schedule.. (This was in Saudi Arabia where expression of Faith was and is totally prohibited and dangerous) I attended it for a year, there were elders who were instruments of God and taught us about growing in Faith.. It was the 'pruning' stage.. We celebrated the Eucharist every week, very very discreetly (we had Bishops and Priests who appreciated our group and encouraged us to continue to grow in Faith)..

The Father and The Son were not omitted in my second Baptism.. But the experience made the Holy Spirit alive in me, and I have felt His Love through the Lord Jesus with utmost intensity....

I will never be accurate when I explain it... It's like you have to go through the process to fully understand it..

I pray that all of us, His Children experience the Life in the Spirit Seminar...

Blessings!

Jan 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Kat-881112 said: Hi Jerry I was born in Catholic Faith, my parents were Catholic. I was baptized in the Catho...
(Quote) Kat-881112 said:

Hi Jerry

I was born in Catholic Faith, my parents were Catholic. I was baptized in the Catholic Church when I was a month old (I think) baby...

I studied elementary in public school where I can't even remember if Religion was taught then.. I never really know of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit.. I know Them by tradition... but did not really have a 'relationship'. However, I have always felt the loving presence of The Father. I remember conversing with Our Father when I was in high school, asking Him why do I have to go to His Son when I could directly communicate to HIM? And who is the Holy Ghost?, I asked.. "Father, is the Holy Ghost a ghost?, is He scary?" LOL

Prior to being baptized by the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Charismatic Community Prayer Group, I attended their prayer sessions/meetings once to twice a week or whenever there was a schedule.. (This was in Saudi Arabia where expression of Faith was and is totally prohibited and dangerous) I attended it for a year, there were elders who were instruments of God and taught us about growing in Faith.. It was the 'pruning' stage.. We celebrated the Eucharist every week, very very discreetly (we had Bishops and Priests who appreciated our group and encouraged us to continue to grow in Faith)..

The Father and The Son were not omitted in my second Baptism.. But the experience made the Holy Spirit alive in me, and I have felt His Love through the Lord Jesus with utmost intensity....

I will never be accurate when I explain it... It's like you have to go through the process to fully understand it..

I pray that all of us, His Children experience the Life in the Spirit Seminar...

Blessings!

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Thanks for the explanation, Kat. I'm still a bit confused: why dd the charismatic group baptize you a second time? Were they not aware you were already baptized? Did they not ask?

Jan 15th 2013 new

They knew I was baptized.. :-)

Prior to LSS, the prayer meetings I attended with the group were 'learning/pruning' sessions. The sharings shared by the elders/ servants about how the Gospel touched their lives, how their struggled through sins, how the Lord Jesus saved them...

The Holy Trinity has always been present in me since my first baptism. But as I grew up and committed sins, the presence of the Holy Spirit became vague. And since I was not properly taught about the Faith in my younger years, that also contributed to His Presence not being recognized in my life.

My life before LSS was lead by me and my logic, I was very controlling. After the second baptism, life completely changed! I still have mishaps of sins but I am more aware of His Grace and His Presence. It is beautiful, Jerry.. you have to experience the process to fully understand.. I hope other Catholic Charismatics in CM will help explain further..

Blessings!!

Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Kat-881112 said: They knew I was baptized.. :-) Prior to LSS, the prayer meetings I attended with the group w...
(Quote) Kat-881112 said:

They knew I was baptized.. :-)

Prior to LSS, the prayer meetings I attended with the group were 'learning/pruning' sessions. The sharings shared by the elders/ servants about how the Gospel touched their lives, how their struggled through sins, how the Lord Jesus saved them...

The Holy Trinity has always been present in me since my first baptism. But as I grew up and committed sins, the presence of the Holy Spirit became vague. And since I was not properly taught about the Faith in my younger years, that also contributed to His Presence not being recognized in my life.

My life before LSS was lead by me and my logic, I was very controlling. After the second baptism, life completely changed! I still have mishaps of sins but I am more aware of His Grace and His Presence. It is beautiful, Jerry.. you have to experience the process to fully understand.. I hope other Catholic Charismatics in CM will help explain further..

Blessings!!

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Clearly, you are not responsible for what happened; however, the priest should have realized the grave nature of repeating the sacrament of baptism. This is the type of situation that causes people to have serious concerns about the charismatic movement.

Jan 15th 2013 new
I will be the first to admit that I have attended life in the spirit events... But I have very deep reservations about some groups of them now.

During the time my son was studying to be confirmed his teacher took the group to a seminar in OKC. And she had arranged ahead of time for a Priest to lay hands on them and pray over the group. She also fed the Priest information ahead of time about the students. Just so happens there were two Andrew's in the class and when 'the word of knowledge' was shared with the Andrew's he shared the wrong knowledge with the wrong Andrew. It really had an adverse affect on my Andrews view of faith in general....so I would have to say I am mostly opposed to this type of thing.

My current Priest explained his view on charismatic prayer. He does not encourage the practice. But during absolution he lays hands on your head and prays as part of the sacrament. He also encourages us to receive the Annointing of the Sick as needed and lays hands on us as he prays during that. He shared that he had witnessed many miracles as a result of people receiving the sacraments and that is what he endorses....I really enjoy having him as a spiritual guidance counselor.
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