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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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After a divorce, after the break up of a serious relationship, and sometimes even after the honeymoon, one of the parties comes to the conclusion that, "I didn't really know him or her". This seems to imply that there is another thing that the same person could say, namely, "My judgment was very poor about my own ability was to know whether I did or did not really know another person."

How reliable is your judgment about whether you have or have not come to know another person well? Do doubts in this area affect you much?

How good are you at judging whether you really know someone else well? Has this ability improved a lot over time?

Note that the question is not about your ability to get to know others. It is about how accurate your judgment is when you say to yourself (or perhaps only feel unconsciously), "I have really come to know this person very well."

Nudging those prone to fiction not to fudge about judging, eyebrow

John

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: After a divorce, after the break up of a serious relationship, and sometimes even after the honeym...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

After a divorce, after the break up of a serious relationship, and sometimes even after the honeymoon, one of the parties comes to the conclusion that, "I didn't really know him or her". This seems to imply that there is another thing that the same person could say, namely, "My judgment was very poor about my own ability was to know whether I did or did not really know another person."

How reliable is your judgment about whether you have or have not come to know another person well? Do doubts in this area affect you much?

How good are you at judging whether you really know someone else well? Has this ability improved a lot over time?

Note that the question is not about your ability to get to know others. It is about how accurate your judgment is when you say to yourself (or perhaps only feel unconsciously), "I have really come to know this person very well."

Nudging those prone to fiction not to fudge about judging,

John

--hide--

The problem isn't simply knowing the other person: how well we know ourself and can judge our compatibility with the other person are also factors. Sin (all sins, not only those mutual with the other person) can cloud our intellect and prevent us from recognizing the truth. For this reason, it is especially important to avoid sin, go to confession often, fast, and to generally try to lead a holy life especially when courting and attempting to discern marriage (or other major life decisions). Even under the best of conditions, our vision is very limited, which is why it is most important to attempt to discern God's will regarding the relationship.

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The problem isn't simply knowing the other person: how well we know ourself and can j...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The problem isn't simply knowing the other person: how well we know ourself and can judge our compatibility with the other person are also factors. Sin (all sins, not only those mutual with the other person) can cloud our intellect and prevent us from recognizing the truth. For this reason, it is especially important to avoid sin, go to confession often, fast, and to generally try to lead a holy life especially when courting and attempting to discern marriage (or other major life decisions). Even under the best of conditions, our vision is very limited, which is why it is most important to attempt to discern God's will regarding the relationship.

--hide--


Thanks Jerry,

I totally agree,
I would also add Faith and trust in the other and self, as How can we be Faithful and truthful in any relationship without them.


jake

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The problem isn't simply knowing the other person: how well we know ourself and can j...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

The problem isn't simply knowing the other person: how well we know ourself and can judge our compatibility with the other person are also factors. Sin (all sins, not only those mutual with the other person) can cloud our intellect and prevent us from recognizing the truth. For this reason, it is especially important to avoid sin, go to confession often, fast, and to generally try to lead a holy life especially when courting and attempting to discern marriage (or other major life decisions). Even under the best of conditions, our vision is very limited, which is why it is most important to attempt to discern God's will regarding the relationship.

--hide--

I would have to agree with Jerry and take that one step further and say to get a regular confessor and spiritual director or at least a regular confessor. Regular confessors are good as they help to break sin patterns. They can counsel if they see you in for the same thing on a regular basis ( not that all of mine have been broken wink ). Once you get a regular confessor and you feel like he gives good counsel you can ask him to be your spiritual director. Make sure you pray about that decision in earnest as it is a serious one and a committment as they will sometimes tell you things that you do not want to hear in that moment. A good spiritual director however will always explain why they are saying what they are saying and why they think that it is beneficial to your soul. Franciscan, Opus Dei, Dominican and Benedictine priests have this as part of their ministry and for Opus Dei priests it is their ministry. If you have a seminary near you as well that is often good. Parish priests especially in today's robust world often do not have the time to provide this ministry outside of the demands of the parish. Ideally this should be done once a week but do whatever works for you and your priest. Also many people do not have the time for such frequent formation. Follow your priest's lead.

I was once told by a priest at the Josephinum ( a seminary in Columbus) that they are so ecstatic when someone comes in asking for a regular confessor or spiritual director but 9.5 times out of 10 it is someone who is discerning the religious life or a member of Opus Dei or some other lay group that advocates formation. Why would we use this wonderful ministry to discern the religious vocation and not others? St. Josemaria Escriva says "No one would sail an ocean if they had never sailed before without a captain. Why then do we brave the uncharted waters of life without a spiritual guide and frequent administration of the sacraments of the Church?"

Jan 6th 2013 new

I agree with Jerry. Also, I find I get a gut feeling about people and when I listen to it I am safe. When I don't I get myself in trouble

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: After a divorce, after the break up of a serious relationship, and sometimes even after the honeym...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

After a divorce, after the break up of a serious relationship, and sometimes even after the honeymoon, one of the parties comes to the conclusion that, "I didn't really know him or her". This seems to imply that there is another thing that the same person could say, namely, "My judgment was very poor about my own ability was to know whether I did or did not really know another person."

How reliable is your judgment about whether you have or have not come to know another person well? Do doubts in this area affect you much?

How good are you at judging whether you really know someone else well? Has this ability improved a lot over time?

Note that the question is not about your ability to get to know others. It is about how accurate your judgment is when you say to yourself (or perhaps only feel unconsciously), "I have really come to know this person very well."

Nudging those prone to fiction not to fudge about judging,

John

--hide--


I have to allow myself time to get to know people. It is when I try to ignore the feelings of concern after knowing them a bit and give someone the benefit of the doubt that I get into trouble. I tend to not judge on first impressions as I have been wrong many times. I need to know a person's heart and feel confident in that.

Some scenarios...I worked for a boss that belittled and yelled frequently at his employees. He focused only on his success and could care less about his employees. I left his employment on good terms, thanking him for the opportunities, etc. Years later he wanted me to come back and work for him again at a new company he'd started. I hesitated and at first refused knowing how his behavior affected me before. He sent a mutual friend to try to convince me who insisted this man had changed. I wanted to believe it, in fact I had prayed for his conversion. I accepted the job and soon discovered that he was much worse than ever.


A homeless man had moved into my neighbor's house and was going to live there when they left for a mission trip. I initially questioned his intentions and worried that these kind-hearted people would be taken advantage of. After getting to know this man, and witnesing his unselfishness and desire to help anyone that he could, I knew my suspicions were unmerited. He is a definite angel.

What's the saying about fools rushing in? That would be me.

Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Jacob-203775 said: Thanks Jerry, I totally agree,I would also add Faith and trust in the other and self, ...
(Quote) Jacob-203775 said:

Thanks Jerry,

I totally agree,
I would also add Faith and trust in the other and self, as How can we be Faithful and truthful in any relationship without them.


jake

--hide--
Jake,

How are things at Federation Square today? Glad that Green Moon kept the Melbourne Cup in The Lucky Country this year.

Your reply dealt with my question in, at most, an indirect way. My question was about your trust in your own judgements about whether you have or have not come to know another person very well.

Let give some examples. If you have no training in medicine, you will probably not trust the reliability of your judgments about the medical conditions of people except in glaringly obvious instances such as a person's bleeding profusely after being bashed by a car. There are probably other areas of life where you think that your judgments are very good without ever being infinitely exact.

Far from Birrarung Marr Park,

John

Jan 6th 2013 new

Marirose,

Thanks for your reply. Sometimes non-rational (not anti-rational) powers are best at detecting non-rational factors.

Since you discern by the gut, would a man be a cut above the rest if he spoke a guttural language or would you panic at Germanic?

Noting that muttering and stuttering can make a relationship start sputtering, cool

John

Jan 6th 2013 new
From what I know about myself, I realize that I tend to see the good in people even when there are glaring faults. I also realize that I need time to get to know someone and that I do need to listen to my gut. Thankfully, I am getting better at judging how well I know someone and am more willing to trust my judgment.
Jan 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Catherine-708752 said: From what I know about myself, I realize that I tend to see the good in people even when there are g...
(Quote) Catherine-708752 said: From what I know about myself, I realize that I tend to see the good in people even when there are glaring faults. I also realize that I need time to get to know someone and that I do need to listen to my gut. Thankfully, I am getting better at judging how well I know someone and am more willing to trust my judgment.
--hide--
Hi Catherine,

Thanks for contributing to this discussion. It sounds like you have, over the years, observed some of the processes that you use in deciding whether you have, or haven't, come to know this or that person and that, by doing this, you have gained greater accuracy to the extent that you are now much more at ease about these judgments.

John

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