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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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01/11/2013 new
Hi Paul, Chances are it would be something you regret. I would advise don't let feelings be your guide. Prayer can guide you to the right person. So that's my advice: prayer. God bless. John
01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-926548 said: I'll put it straight out here. There is someone that I am very much attracted to intellectuall...
(Quote) Paul-926548 said:

I'll put it straight out here. There is someone that I am very much attracted to intellectually, spiritually and physically. She happens to be a 2nd cousin. Where is the line drawn, as far as relations go toward those who are technically 'family'? I highly doubt there is anything mutual on her part, but I'd still like to get an opinion on this. Thanks! =)

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I think it is allowed with a dispensation.

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Andrea-368827 said: I think it is allowed with a dispensation.
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said:


I think it is allowed with a dispensation.

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But I wouldn't go that route. John's advice is good.

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-926548 said: I'll put it straight out here. There is someone that I am very much attracted to intellectuall...
(Quote) Paul-926548 said:

I'll put it straight out here. There is someone that I am very much attracted to intellectually, spiritually and physically. She happens to be a 2nd cousin. Where is the line drawn, as far as relations go toward those who are technically 'family'? I highly doubt there is anything mutual on her part, but I'd still like to get an opinion on this. Thanks! =)

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Paul, many people recommend this book, you may want to start with this:

Theology of the Body, by Christopher West
www.amazon.com

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: Hi, I think Canon 1091 addresses your question: Can. 1091 §1. In the direct line of con...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

Hi, I think Canon 1091 addresses your question:

Can. 1091 §1. In the direct line of consanguinity marriage is invalid between all ancestors and descendants, both legitimate and natural.

§2. In the collateral line marriage is invalid up to and including the fourth degree.

§3. The impediment of consanguinity is not multiplied.

§4. A marriage is never permitted if doubt exists whether the partners are related by consanguinity in any degree of the direct line or in the second degree of the collateral line.

 

Of course, you probably have to be a canon lawyer to understand what that all means.


Here is an article that might help:

catholicexchange.com

But I think the best thing to do is talk to a priest who is also a canon lawyer.

And then of course there is the matter of civil law. Many states allow marriage as long as you are not first cousins, but marriage is a state by state thing, so you would have to know the law of your own state and where you are marrying to know if the marriage is 1) permitted and 2) recognized (even if you marry in another state that allows it, will your home state where you wish to live recognize the union from a legal point of view.

Good luck!

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Canon 108 explains how the degrees of consanguinity are counted.

Can. 108 §1 Consanguinity is reckoned by lines and degrees.

§2 In the direct line there are as many degrees as there are generations, that is, as there are persons, not counting the common ancestor.

§3 In the collateral line there are as many degrees as there are persons in both lines together, not counting the common ancestor.

www.intratext.com

The short answer is that first cousins (4th degree) or aunt/uncle and nephew/niece (3rd degree) are not allowed to marry; second cousins (6th degree) are permitted to do so. Whether or not this is wise for them to do so is another question. Concerns include genetics and discord within the family, particularly if the affected branches have close ties.

With regard to one state not recognizing marriages legally performed in another state:

I believe the Full Faith and Credit clause of the U.S. Constitution (article IV section 1) requires that all states recognize a marriage legally performed in any state -- with the exception of same-sex marriages, which are exempted under the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Andrea-368827 said: I think it is allowed with a dispensation.
(Quote) Andrea-368827 said:

I think it is allowed with a dispensation.

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The Church requires no dispensation for second cousins (6th degree on consanguinity in the collateral line) to marry.

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: The children of my parents' first cousins.
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

The children of my parents' first cousins.
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I have learned that they are your "first cousins, once removed." This is confusing.

01/11/2013 new
I found this confusing for a time too but once removed means one generation removed, either up a generation or down a generation. So your parents' first cousins are your first cousins once removed, and you are their first cousin once removed. The children of your parents' first cousins are your second cousins.
01/11/2013 new

(Quote) John-746882 said: I found this confusing for a time too but once removed means one generation removed, either up a generati...
(Quote) John-746882 said: I found this confusing for a time too but once removed means one generation removed, either up a generation or down a generation. So your parents' first cousins are your first cousins once removed, and you are their first cousin once removed. The children of your parents' first cousins are your second cousins.
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Funny story...we moved to a different province and city when I was about 6 years old. Because we moved into the area where many of my dad's extended family (1st & 2nd cousins, great aunts/uncles, etc), I started hearing from my parents about all these 1st/2nd cousins once we moved. I never did get why it made a difference that we had moved! laughing It took a few years before I realized they were saying once removed. Needless to say that cleared things up a lot!

On the topic at hand, I have personal knowledge of at least one couple who married in the Catholic church who were first cousins. I'm not sure if they had to get a dispensation or not, but I don't think so. The first priest they went to refused to marry them, but they got a second opinion and learned that the first priest was wrong, that they could be married in the church. Apparenly the first priest was from a foreign country in eastern Europe I believe and wasn't aware of the differences between the "old and new rules" or it might've been differences between countries.


They are very happy and have 4 great kids, with none of them having two heads or six fingers or any other birth defects of any kind. I think that the risk of such issues are very low unless there has been significant inbreeding for several generations. I think the biggest worry is when the last name is the same - I've heard a few stories from this couple about having to repeat themselves several times when asked for the wife's maiden name.


I don't know that it's something I would recommend, but at least in this case, it has turned out very well! I think sometimes you can't help who you are attracted to and fall in love with.

01/11/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Canon 108 explains how the degrees of consanguinity are counted. Can. 108 §1 Consang...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Canon 108 explains how the degrees of consanguinity are counted.

Can. 108 §1 Consanguinity is reckoned by lines and degrees.

§2 In the direct line there are as many degrees as there are generations, that is, as there are persons, not counting the common ancestor.

§3 In the collateral line there are as many degrees as there are persons in both lines together, not counting the common ancestor.

www.intratext.com

The short answer is that first cousins (4th degree) or aunt/uncle and nephew/niece (3rd degree) are not allowed to marry; second cousins (6th degree) are permitted to do so. Whether or not this is wise for them to do so is another question. Concerns include genetics and discord within the family, particularly if the affected branches have close ties.

With regard to one state not recognizing marriages legally performed in another state:

I believe the Full Faith and Credit clause of the U.S. Constitution (article IV section 1) requires that all states recognize a marriage legally performed in any state -- with the exception of same-sex marriages, which are exempted under the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

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Let me post this reference before sharing.

...This brings us now to the relationship addressed in Jeremys question: what is the degree of consanguinity between two cousins? Well, lets imagine Cousin Jenny and Cousin Mike. Jennys mother, Beth, is the sister of Mikes father, David. The common ancestor(s) in this case is the parent(s) of Beth and David. If we count all the persons involved in this relationship, minus the common ancestor, we find four persons involved. So these two cousins who in our parlance are first cousins are related in the fourth degree of the collateral line.

So can Cousin Jenny validly marry Cousin Mike? Not according to canon 1091.2, which says marriages are invalid up to and including the fourth degree. First cousins, therefore, cannot marry in the Church.

catholicexchange.com

What year this canon law was made?

If it is older then 10 years then my parents of 50 years marriage wouldn't be able to marry in church also my sister and cousin (10 years ago wouldn't be able to marry in church)

To clarify my father's father and my mother's mother are brother and sister. My sister's father and cousin's mother are sister and brother. They are all married in church

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