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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Jan 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: To me it appears that the reality in the US today is not tyranny of the majority but a ty...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

To me it appears that the reality in the US today is not tyranny of the majority but a tyranny by a very vocal and activist minority; i.e. an over educated with no wisdom intellectual group of pinheads, gays and others of their ilk.

They continue in power because the vast majority pays virtually no attention, and is poorly educated by those same pinheads and are abetted by the general media.

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Paul, So true, I should have said by a majority of votes we are being ruled buy a tyranny of a few radical idiots.

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Jan 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: Paul, So true, I should have said by a majority of votes we are being ruled buy a tyranny of a few radical id...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Paul, So true, I should have said by a majority of votes we are being ruled buy a tyranny of a few radical idiots.

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I see the machinations that go on in D.C. politics up close, and there is nothing democratic about it. Party bosses, wealthy donors, media figures and a handful of powerful interest groups run the whole government for their personal enrichment and benefit.

Then they turn around and lie to the people saying their opinions count. As someone who studies mass psychology in grad school, I think that is a dangerous combination.

The following article about why Jonestown happened in the 1970s reveals just how easily manipulated the masses are. www.apa.org
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Jan 11th 2013 new
(Quote) John-220051 said: I see the machinations that go on in D.C. politics up close, and there is nothing democratic about it. Part...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

I see the machinations that go on in D.C. politics up close, and there is nothing democratic about it. Party bosses, wealthy donors, media figures and a handful of powerful interest groups run the whole government for their personal enrichment and benefit.



Then they turn around and lie to the people saying their opinions count. As someone who studies mass psychology in grad school, I think that is a dangerous combination.



The following article about why Jonestown happened in the 1970s reveals just how easily manipulated the masses are. www.apa.org
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Either monarchy, or democracy, could work only if people truly sought to discern the will of God. In today's United States, this does not appear to be the case, with people advocating a separation of faith from the public sphere.

And then, there is, as you mentioned, the pocketbook.....

We should also note that it was the fiat of the German people which allowed Hitler to become a dictator almost overnight.
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Jan 11th 2013 new

I wonder if we can even turn things around. People are so anaesthetized to the reality that the government is completely out of our hands, it seems almost as if there's no way back. Every branch of government has been hijacked by either socialistic or manichean congolomerate groups. There seems to be no more republic, no real representation, just a secret oligarchy of different factions running things.

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Jan 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: I wonder if we can even turn things around. People are so anaesthetized to the reality that the government is co...
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:

I wonder if we can even turn things around. People are so anaesthetized to the reality that the government is completely out of our hands, it seems almost as if there's no way back. Every branch of government has been hijacked by either socialistic or manichean congolomerate groups. There seems to be no more republic, no real representation, just a secret oligarchy of different factions running things.

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You would be correct. I know congressmen and senators personally who want to do the right thing and are totally frustrated with the machinations in Washington.

What we have here can't be any worse than having a king.
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Jan 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: That would only work if the ruler is a caring ruler who has morals. If not there will only be order, by force ...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

That would only work if the ruler is a caring ruler who has morals. If not there will only be order, by force and not buy moral laws.

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Indeed.
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Jan 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: To me it appears that the reality in the US today is not tyranny of the majority but a tyranny by ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

To me it appears that the reality in the US today is not tyranny of the majority but a tyranny by a very vocal and activist minority; i.e. an over educated with no wisdom intellectual group of pinheads, gays and others of their ilk.

They continue in power because the vast majority pays virtually no attention, and is poorly educated by those same pinheads and are abetted by the general media.

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These are excellent points.

I am criticized whenever I opine that the democracy that the Founding Fathers laid out in the eighteenth century was unique to that time and place, and its success over two hundred years ago hardly means that it must be successful today. You had northern european protestants (British Anglicans and German Lutherans) who were the bulk of your citizenry; if they didn't understand each other in a literal sense because of the different languages, they understood each other in a practical sense.

The country was far more rural and far more homogeonous than our country is today. When you lived on a farm and you could sustain a family with your hands, you really had no use for government. Put that same family in an urban area where one commutes to a job, and the loss of that job represents a real threat to the welfare of one's family. Hence, the demand for government assistance.

The democratic republic that the Founding Fathers laid out with our constitution did not even last a human lifetime; Federalism replaced it after the Civil War.

The question that always follows these conversations is, "but what do we replace this with?"






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Jan 11th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: I am criticized whenever I opine that the democracy that the Founding Fathers laid out in the e...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

I am criticized whenever I opine that the democracy that the Founding Fathers laid out in the eighteenth century

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What democracy are you speaking of?

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Jan 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: What democracy are you speaking of?
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

What democracy are you speaking of?

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Well, the democratic republic that became the democracy (in the practical sense) we have today.

As I pointed out, it didn't even last a human lifetime.

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Jan 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: I will go with St. Robert Bellarmine's idea of a mixed regime as best in actual practice. Mo...
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:

I will go with St. Robert Bellarmine's idea of a mixed regime as best in actual practice. Monarchs are not always beholden to their nobler callings.

As Bellarmine said, Monarchy is in danger of devolving into Tyranny. Democracy is in danger of devolving into mob rule. And, Aristocracy is in danger of devolving into elitism. Our Constitution essentially goes with Bellarmine's notion. The Presidency is the Monarchy, the House of Reps the Democracy, and the Senate the Aristocracy (originally appointed by the President, not elected).


www.hprweb.com

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Senators were never appointed by the President, they have always been elected, originally by the Legislatures of their state. The XVII amendment changed that to election by the voters of the State.

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