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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Jan 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Many Traditionalists prefer Monarchism, but there is nothing inherently unChristian abo...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Many Traditionalists prefer Monarchism, but there is nothing inherently unChristian about Republics, or even Constitutional Monarchy, as England established under the Magna Carta when it was still Catholic.

The key is legitimacy, and recovery of the sense that authority comes from Christ, and that those that rule do so with the organic aid of the Church as the Soul of society, and are accountable to Christ for their decisions. It was requires that we recover that real liberty is the freedom to perform with virtue, to do the right and the good, and that any law that would be enforced that goes against Divine or Natural Law must be opposed because it is, as St. Augustine said, no law at all.

It may also help to realize that many saints and fathers of the Church have said that the age of the Republics will come to an end with the rise of a great catholic king, who will be annointed by a holy pope, and that this would happen just as it seems that the world is collapsing and the Churches enemies have destroyed the Papacy by exiling the Pontiff from Rome. A type of this event is foreshadowed by the removal of Pope Pius VI by Napoleon in 1799 from Rome in a cart, leading to his death six weeks later. Those in France called him "Pope Pius VI the Last", thinking that they destroyed the Church by this act.

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Pope Innocent III declared the Magna Carta null and void because it interfered with his authority over England and King John as his vassal.

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Jan 24th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: (Why, oh why, does the emoticom not work anymore?!) Seriously, why do you say stuf...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

(Why, oh why, does the emoticom not work anymore?!)

Seriously, why do you say stuff like that? Nobody is dumb enough to believe it. There were any number of politicians who publicly opposed him and were not arrested. There were hordes of citizens who publicly opposed him in the papers and in public who were not arrested.

If you want to come across as a conspiracy theory nut, I guess that's your business. If you want to come across as a reasonable person, you might want to think about making reasonable concessions when you're called on hyperbole.

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I don't really care what you think, About anything. I guess you don't read history, or only the history that paints him as one of our favorite presidents. You are not the man who knows everything better then everyone else and you really should get of your soap box. I have to say the way you confront people on this site must be a flaw in your personality, I guess . Thinking you know everything better then everyone else must be a hard thing to maintain. So please pass me by, when you are into calling people ridiculous names, because there ideas or opinions on things, they have read and learned in there life, don't line up with yours. It seems anyone who has a different idea on something then you, is called silly, dumb or out of there mind. I guess it makes you feel superior or something like that. Good luck with that???

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Jan 24th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: (Why, oh why, does the emoticom not work anymore?!) Seriously, why do you say stuf...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

(Why, oh why, does the emoticom not work anymore?!)

Seriously, why do you say stuff like that? Nobody is dumb enough to believe it. There were any number of politicians who publicly opposed him and were not arrested. There were hordes of citizens who publicly opposed him in the papers and in public who were not arrested.

If you want to come across as a conspiracy theory nut, I guess that's your business. If you want to come across as a reasonable person, you might want to think about making reasonable concessions when you're called on hyperbole.

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John,

I don't know about all of Thomas's assertions here, but I will state here that the Abraham Lincoln who the American public believes it knows is nothing more than a construct. The man was a vicious human being who took the presidency of the United States to a level of power that it had never reached either before or after his presidency; if there was ever a dictator in the White House, he was it.

Depending on the source, it is estimated that he had between 13,000 and 38,000 political prisoners arrested. (Could you find some politicians who weren't? Yes, I am sure you can. But that you can doesn't mean he didn't abuse his power like a dictator.)

He had 300 (three hundred) newspapers who opposed him shut down. (Were there some that opposed him that didn't get shut down? Yes, probably. But that doesn't mean he didn't abuse his office and shut down the newspapers like he was someone running a banana republic.)

These aren't conspiracy theories; this information is there to anyone who picks up a book. (Now I personally think we tend to be an illiterate citizenry here in America, but some people do know about these things.)

More here:
www.lewrockwell.com

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Jan 24th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: John,I don't know about all of Thomas's assertions here, but I will sta...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



John,

I don't know about all of Thomas's assertions here, but I will state here that the Abraham Lincoln who the American public believes it knows is nothing more than a construct. The man was a vicious human being who took the presidency of the United States to a level of power that it had never reached either before or after his presidency; if there was ever a dictator in the White House, he was it.

Depending on the source, it is estimated that he had between 13,000 and 38,000 political prisoners arrested. (Could you find some politicians who weren't? Yes, I am sure you can. But that you can doesn't mean he didn't abuse his power like a dictator.)

He had 300 (three hundred) newspapers who opposed him shut down. (Were there some that opposed him that didn't get shut down? Yes, probably. But that doesn't mean he didn't abuse his office and shut down the newspapers like he was someone running a banana republic.)

tThese aren't conspiracy theories; his information is there to anyone who picks up a book. (Now I personally think we tend to be an illiterate citizenry here in America, but some people do know about these things.)

More here:
www.lewrockwell.com

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Wait just a minute William! It's not a Conspiracy theory as long as one reads it in a book?

rolling eyes scratchchin laughing laughing laughing

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Jan 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Wait just a minute William! It's not a Conspiracy theory as long as one reads it in a book?
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Wait just a minute William! It's not a Conspiracy theory as long as one reads it in a book?

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I think he's saying that the information is easily verified in historical accounts.

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Jan 25th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: John,I don't know about all of Thomas's assertions here, but I will sta...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



John,

I don't know about all of Thomas's assertions here, but I will state here that the Abraham Lincoln who the American public believes it knows is nothing more than a construct. The man was a vicious human being who took the presidency of the United States to a level of power that it had never reached either before or after his presidency; if there was ever a dictator in the White House, he was it.

Depending on the source, it is estimated that he had between 13,000 and 38,000 political prisoners arrested. (Could you find some politicians who weren't? Yes, I am sure you can. But that you can doesn't mean he didn't abuse his power like a dictator.)

He had 300 (three hundred) newspapers who opposed him shut down. (Were there some that opposed him that didn't get shut down? Yes, probably. But that doesn't mean he didn't abuse his office and shut down the newspapers like he was someone running a banana republic.)

These aren't conspiracy theories; this information is there to anyone who picks up a book. (Now I personally think we tend to be an illiterate citizenry here in America, but some people do know about these things.)

More here:
www.lewrockwell.com

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I would tend to agree with the statement "IF ever there were a dictator in the White House, he was it."

There is not question he kept Maryland in the Union with some pretty heavy-handed tactics. Nobody is denying that there weren't political prisoners.

But notice the difference between your statements and the silliness Thomas is spewing. You actually are giving some facts and figures, he just makes absurd claims that EVERYONE opposed to Lincoln was arrested. That obviously did not happen. When called on it, a rational person would have just said, "okay, yeah, I was engaged in hyperbole there." A conspiracy theory nut just digs in and insists the absurd is somehow the truth.

If he had been content with saying that Lincoln wasn't shy about clamping down on dissidents, I'd have agreed with him. If he had said that Lincoln wielded more personal power to exercise direct government control over the country than any other president, he might well have been right. (Although people don't realize how authoritarian Woodrow Wilson was during WWI. Lincoln probably has him beaten, but that's neither here nor there.) But no, true to extremist form, we can't be content with logic or facts; it has to be out on the fringe. So now we're asked to believe that Lincoln was a dictator who was arresting millions of people. Give me a break!

Now while I personally think you're engaged in some overkill and hyperbole with the characterization of "vicious," you're not being a conspiracy theory net. You're taking a strong stance. I don't agree with it (if it makes you feel any better, I'd agree to "ruthless"), but at least you're backing your stand with some actual facts. You're not making claims that are impossible on their face.

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Jan 25th 2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: I don't really care what you think, About anything. I guess you don't read history, or o...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

I don't really care what you think, About anything. I guess you don't read history, or only the history that paints him as one of our favorite presidents. You are not the man who knows everything better then everyone else and you really should get of your soap box. I have to say the way you confront people on this site must be a flaw in your personality, I guess . Thinking you know everything better then everyone else must be a hard thing to maintain. So please pass me by, when you are into calling people ridiculous names, because there ideas or opinions on things, they have read and learned in there life, don't line up with yours. It seems anyone who has a different idea on something then you, is called silly, dumb or out of there mind. I guess it makes you feel superior or something like that. Good luck with that???

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You've got it all wrong; it doesn't take somebody who knows everything to put a hole in conspiracy theories; it just takes some common sense and elementary school level math skills.

You're statement that Lincoln arrested anybody who disagreed with him is flatly untrue, and no amount of crying about how I'm a mean know it all will go back and time and change that reality.

Man up and have the backbone to admit that you went a bit over the top on that one.

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Jan 25th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Are you just trolling? The fact that Ceasar was murdered by some politicians hardly demon...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Are you just trolling? The fact that Ceasar was murdered by some politicians hardly demonstrates that his troops weren't personally loyal to him. Likewise the events from later generations are incapable of speaking to the fact that the Republic fell to Ceasar who had the personal loyalty of his troops. And to the extent that they can be claimed to be relevant, Caligula was popular with the army when he ascended the throne, and lost the throne when he lost their support. This would support, not negate, the premise that the loyalty of the army was important. Likewise, Nero lost power when the army abandoned him.

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No Im not a troll but thanks for asking, I DO have a degree in Strategic Studies and History if it helps. The plot against Ceasar was organised by two Senators who were to be the Tribunes for the year(s) that Ceasar usurped power. Tribune was a political post just below Consul, the job Ceasar took and became Dictator, then Emperor. The reason he was for ever making war was he had to produce victories and slaves to pacify the Army and maintain the economy or he would loose the backing of the Army Commanders, and the people.

So the Senate couldnt do away with Ceasar WITHOUT direct or tacit support of the Army hence the 10 Civil War which followed, the destruction of Mark Antony and Cleopatra and the rule of the Julians starting with Octavious

Caligula died because the Preatorian Guard turned against him which is what I said

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Jan 25th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: As has already been pointed out, the government of Australia disagrees with your...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

As has already been pointed out, the government of Australia disagrees with your version of events. It is probably not surprising you aren't providing any sources to back up your claims.

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Oh sorry I just lived there for 20 years and studied Law at Sydney University

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Jan 25th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: As has already been pointed out, the government of Australia disagrees with your...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

As has already been pointed out, the government of Australia disagrees with your version of events. It is probably not surprising you aren't providing any sources to back up your claims.

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PS to the above comment I work at senior level for the Commonwealth Government

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