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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: (Quote) Mike-41230 said: A year ago we had what I think was a very inter...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Quote:
Mike-41230 said:

A year ago we had what I think was a very interesting discussion about the Catholic prophecy of the Great Monarch at the Fish Eaters forum. Apparently Louis XVI's son, the Daufin survived and was spirited away from the Temple Prison during the French Revolution. And apparently the Daufin's progeny, which would also be King Louis XVI's progeny is living quietly in Canada. He is being protected as he has already had his life threatened.

Here is the link to the 5 page discussion at the Fish Eaters forum if you care to read it.
catholicforum.fisheaters.com

I'm sorry that the video that I posted on the first page of the thread at the Fish Eaters forum was removed by the owner (I am mikemac at Fish Eaters). But I did record some of the lines from the video when I posted it. Here is what I recorded.

The first line in the Irish prophecies is "Ireland, recall from exile your forgotten sons."
It goes on to say "warriors she call on you to fight", she meaning Mary.
"her lieutenant is Ard ri Erenn monarch of Tara"
"He is not Irish but his heart was"
"He is from lilies of France and knows how to carry the cross"
Then it says
"to crush the tyrant you will only rely on the Gedeon forces" in reference to the Book of Judges chapters 6 to 8.
"from the Galleon of New France, Gedeon move slowly"
"Legion and progeny of the King that XVI is his number come to hunt the tyrants."

The video gave me the shivers. I watched it quite a few times. I find this topic fascinating. Don Quixote (one of the posters on the thread at the Fish Eaters forum) and myself carried on the discussion in private message because he didn't think anything else should be said about King Louis XVI's progeny on a public forum. He sounded very informed about this. I could tell that he wasn't telling me everything that he knew about it.


The trouble with that theory is Louis XVI did rule and did produce heirs. He replaced Napoleon I in 1813 following his defeat and exile to Elba. He was the last Bourbon king of France. He in turn did a runner with family to Austria where his wife came from, and where their heirs still live. Napoleon return to rule for 6 months before going to St Helena. Louis retuned, died of over eating and obesity, replaced by his unpopular son Charles who was overthrown, a republic the 2nd was formed in France with Napoleon I son as President. He became Napoleon II and ruled till the 3rd Republic in 1873 when he and all kings were done away with in France.

However, the Bourbons still rule, in Spain, Greece, and many of the Balkan states, so what comes around never goes away

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No Patrick, it was Louis XVIII that replaced Napoleon I in 1814. He was the younger brother of Louis XVI, who also plotted against Louis XVI. You'd have to read the whole thread at the Fish Eaters forum to understand.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: (Quote) Patrick-624504 said: The title of Defender of the Faith was besto...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Quote:
Patrick-624504 said:

The title of Defender of the Faith was bestoded 1521 by Pope Leo X for the kings dissertation on the Seven Sacrements and their importance to the Christian Faith. H8 was a learned and devout Catholic, he had traveled to Rome and studied theology. Make no mistake despite what the Anglicans claim it is a Catholic Title only bestowed by a Pope.

Hope that clears that up for you. This is a potted version only


You are correct in this fact, and in fact the book is in print againt, introduced by Catholic apologist Raymond de Souza.

keysofpeter.org

However, what Thomas said is also true. Once Henry VIII made himself the head of his own church, he ruthlessly killed all he could find that wouldn't follow him into schism. The loads of "priest holes," found in Tudor era houses throughout England, is testiment to this, as is the history of the popular fight for the Church, the Pilgrimage of Grace in 1536. Those that rose in that should be remembered as we do the Vendee during the French Revolution and the Christeros in Mexico, as brave defenders of the Faith.

en.wikipedia.org

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Exactly Steven. And those that rose at the Battle of the Boyne, the Highland Risings of 1715, 1719 and 1745 should also be remembered as we do the Vendee during the French Revolution and the Christeros in Mexico, as brave defenders of the Faith. God bless Father White, an Irish priest that brought the Sacraments to my ancestors in Glengarry, Scotland after the glen had been absent of them for over two years. Father White was eventually hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Mass. But in Father White's memory many good priests sprung from Glengarry, including the first Bishop of Upper Canada, Bishop Alexander MacDonell, who the Catholic encyclopedia describes as the Apostle of Ontario.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is ...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is far more important when we die than whatever we had done before then. The good thief at the Cruxifixion reminds us of this. However, in terms of simply one's place in history, no, I suppose it wouldn't.

I think his life should serve as a warning to every Catholic: we always stand the risk of losing the Faith.

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Absolutely true.

Similarly, any political system whose rulers fall from God will become a danger to its citizens or subject. We saw that with Henry VIII, we saw it with Napoleon, and now we see it in Obama and his ruling party.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: But you do have an all-powerful media complex that pulls the strings on what today's American...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

But you do have an all-powerful media complex that pulls the strings on what today's Americans think, read, and believe.

en.wikipedia.org
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Be that as it may, it hardly speaks to any parallels with the fall of Rome.

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is ...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is far more important when we die than whatever we had done before then. The good thief at the Cruxifixion reminds us of this. However, in terms of simply one's place in history, no, I suppose it wouldn't.

I think his life should serve as a warning to every Catholic: we always stand the risk of losing the Faith.

--hide--

wave

Sincewe normally spend our time violently disagreeing, I thought I'd mention that I'm with you on this one!

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Jan 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Sincewe normally spend our time violently disagreeing, I thought I'd mention...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Sincewe normally spend our time violently disagreeing, I thought I'd mention that I'm with you on this one!

--hide--



John, thank you for your support.

I'm sure you know that we probably agree with each other 95% of the time; it's that 5% that we can't get past.

I gotta go. Cheers...

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Madison noted that no democracy had ever lasted longer than 200 years. We've made it 236 year...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

Madison noted that no democracy had ever lasted longer than 200 years. We've made it 236 years.
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Australia was founded in 1754 so beats the US by 20 years.

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: No Patrick, it was Louis XVIII that replaced Napoleon I in 1814. He was the younger brothe...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

No Patrick, it was Louis XVIII that replaced Napoleon I in 1814. He was the younger brother of Louis XVI, who also plotted against Louis XVI. You'd have to read the whole thread at the Fish Eaters forum to understand.

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My appologisies subject to subject. But being Royal the plots dont surprise me, it is the role of younger Royals to plot and scheme. Take the Regency of Prince of Wales in 1803 just one or the great Alexander against Phillip

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: (Quote) John-220051 said: But you do have an all-powerful media complex th...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Quote:
John-220051 said:

But you do have an all-powerful media complex that pulls the strings on what today's Americans think, read, and believe.

en.wikipedia.org

Be that as it may, it hardly speaks to any parallels with the fall of Rome.

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No but the acromony and inaction of Congress and Presidency and the internicene fighting do paralell the fall of many an Empire

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Yes, and the English thought that they had proper clIam to much of France. Lest we fall ino the atheist...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Yes, and the English thought that they had proper clIam to much of France. Lest we fall ino the atheist or deist conclusion that all arrangements are "only from us," remember that our God did answer the controversy by raising up a saint to restore the legitimate order. That saint, it should be remembered, is Joan of Arc, who led a Catholic army for the Roi, not the "nation" of France in the social compact nationalist sense.
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The English did have a claim on France thanks to William Duke of Burgundy, Joan d'Arc was useful alive but the Dauphan so more use in her death.

As to whether Democracy is better than monarchy, I would think the question would be is multi party membership in government better than oligarchy, theocracy, monarchy or dictatorship. It seems to me that eventually humanity always returns to a single class or person rule template for government.

Afterall the Pope is the ONLY leader of the Church. An absolute unquestionable ruler, his word is litteraly law and policy should he wish

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