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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is ...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



In terms of one's own salvation, it actually does. Our standing with the Church is far more important when we die than whatever we had done before then. The good thief at the Cruxifixion reminds us of this. However, in terms of simply one's place in history, no, I suppose it wouldn't.

I think his life should serve as a warning to every Catholic: we always stand the risk of losing the Faith.

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Couldnt agree more. H8 was a good Catholic devout, fit and fair, praised by all, even the Church but he let power go to his head and is now probably stoking one of the fires. "The good man does with ones life is inturred with his bones, the he does live on forever" William Shakespeare Catholic and anti Elizabethian

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: The looming financial crisis is a point of similarity, but there is not an all-powerful m...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

The looming financial crisis is a point of similarity, but there is not an all-powerful military with a loyalty to a particular general instead of the state.

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Are you sure? To whoom would the 10 National Security apparatus be loyal, and are all the military securely behind the civil arm of government?

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: Oh, quite. Spot on. But let's not forget that H8 also ordered monsteries and co...
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:


Oh, quite. Spot on. But let's not forget that H8 also ordered monsteries and convents burned and the monks and nuns murdered. I think he and Herod the Great would've been great buddies if they'd been contemporaries.

Just a minor correction there, but your quote is from John Donne, not St. Paul.

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In the Dissolution as it is called he did worse than that. Monks and other religious were killed, exiled, arrested, and some were forced to marry. But some Monastries and Abbies continued though heavily taxed and watched, the members recorded and the congregation persecuted. But H8 needed the Hospitals and social services they provided so he allowed some to remain but 85% were demolished and given to his converted nobles and bishops

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: Just a minor correction there, but your quote is from John Donne, not St. Paul.
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:

Just a minor correction there, but your quote is from John Donne, not St. Paul.

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I thought John Donne said "Fear not for whom the bell toll, It tolls for thee"? and Pauls was from his epistle to the? Ephisians?

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Kyle-841608 said: The Pope never allowed a divorce between Henry VIII and Catherine. There were no grounds for it. H...
(Quote) Kyle-841608 said:

The Pope never allowed a divorce between Henry VIII and Catherine. There were no grounds for it. Henry then formed his own church so he could marry Anne Boleyn whom he later beheaded for treason.

Henry was a popular and powerful king in Europe and he probably would have gotten his annulment if it had not been for Catherine's nephew. He was Charles V king of Spain. He had control over the pope and had military superiority. Charles was totally against the annulment and if the pope granted it, it would have cost him his papacy in Italy.

There was a very good series on HBO which showed the reign of Henry VIII and was factually true.

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You have your Catherines mixed up. Catherine (the first) was divorced as she only produced Mary I and was by this stage at menopause. Pope Leo allowed the divorce so the line could continue. The Bull of Divorce and Excommunication are held in the Vatican Secret Archives.

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: (Quote) Steven-706921 said: (Quote) Patrick-624504 said:...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Quote:
Steven-706921 said:

Quote:
Patrick-624504 said:

The title of Defender of the Faith was bestoded 1521 by Pope Leo X for the kings dissertation on the Seven Sacrements and their importance to the Christian Faith. H8 was a learned and devout Catholic, he had traveled to Rome and studied theology. Make no mistake despite what the Anglicans claim it is a Catholic Title only bestowed by a Pope.

Hope that clears that up for you. This is a potted version only


You are correct in this fact, and in fact the book is in print againt, introduced by Catholic apologist Raymond de Souza.

keysofpeter.org

However, what Thomas said is also true. Once Henry VIII made himself the head of his own church, he ruthlessly killed all he could find that wouldn't follow him into schism. The loads of "priest holes," found in Tudor era houses throughout England, is testiment to this, as is the history of the popular fight for the Church, the Pilgrimage of Grace in 1536. Those that rose in that should be remembered as we do the Vendee during the French Revolution and the Christeros in Mexico, as brave defenders of the Faith.

en.wikipedia.org


Exactly Steven. And those that rose at the Battle of the Boyne, the Highland Risings of 1715, 1719 and 1745 should also be remembered as we do the Vendee during the French Revolution and the Christeros in Mexico, as brave defenders of the Faith. God bless Father White, an Irish priest that brought the Sacraments to my ancestors in Glengarry, Scotland after the glen had been absent of them for over two years. Father White was eventually hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Mass. But in Father White's memory many good priests sprung from Glengarry, including the first Bishop of Upper Canada, Bishop Alexander MacDonell, who the Catholic encyclopedia describes as the Apostle of Ontario.

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Cant diagree the Tudors were anti catholic and the English continued the tradition through to the Hanovers with George IV

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Australia was founded in 1754 so beats the US by 20 years.
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Australia was founded in 1754 so beats the US by 20 years.

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If you're going by dates of colony establishment, you're wrong on a number of counts.

Australia was founded in 1788 not 1754.

The first American colony was founded in 1607, nearly 150 years before even your erroneous date. The last of the original 13, Georgia, was still established by the early 1730's.

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Are you sure? To whoom would the 10 National Security apparatus be loyal, and are all ...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Are you sure? To whoom would the 10 National Security apparatus be loyal, and are all the military securely behind the civil arm of government?

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I am quite confident there is no person, civilian or military, who could is so popular with the military they could count on the armed forces backing them in a bid to assume a throne in the U.S.

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: No but the acromony and inaction of Congress and Presidency and the internicene fighti...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

No but the acromony and inaction of Congress and Presidency and the internicene fighting do paralell the fall of many an Empire

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The infighting is sadly the normal state of affairs of all politicians of all places and all ages. While it is a lamentable state of affairs, the mere existence of general acrimony etc. doesn't signal an imminent end. The specific issue of an unwillingness to address tremendous financial problems is a much more serious problem.

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Jan 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: I am quite confident there is no person, civilian or military, who could is so popular wi...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

I am quite confident there is no person, civilian or military, who could is so popular with the military they could count on the armed forces backing them in a bid to assume a throne in the U.S.

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Paraphrasing, but George Washington said something like, "I didn't lead a revolution from George the 3rd in order to become George the 1st."

I think at one point his subordinates wanted to make him dictator, if not Monarch.

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