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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

01/16/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-26175 said: Paraphrasing, but George Washington said something like, "I didn't lead a ...
(Quote) Patrick-26175 said:


Paraphrasing, but George Washington said something like, "I didn't lead a revolution from George the 3rd in order to become George the 1st."

I think at one point his subordinates wanted to make him dictator, if not Monarch.

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Washington probably could have pulled it off, but he's been dead for a while. Nobody today has that kind of stature.

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01/16/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: A rose by any other name is still a rose. You dont have to call it monarchy, king, que...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

A rose by any other name is still a rose. You dont have to call it monarchy, king, queen to be one. After the Democratic Peoples Republic of Germany was neither a democracy nor a republic

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How is any of that relevant to the fact that contemporary American problems don't set up the same situation that lead to the end of the Roman Republic?

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01/17/2013 new
(Quote) John-336509 said: How is any of that relevant to the fact that co...
(Quote) John-336509 said:



How is any of that relevant to the fact that contemporary American problems don't set up the same situation that lead to the end of the Roman Republic?

--hide--


It does when you have a president who usurps constitutional powers that don't belong to him amid a corrupt and weak Congress (Senate in Rome's case). Obama is becoming like Julius Caesar in his refusal to follow the Constitution on legislative matters.
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01/17/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: The English did have a claim on France thanks to William Duke of Burgundy, Joan d'...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

The English did have a claim on France thanks to William Duke of Burgundy, Joan d'Arc was useful alive but the Dauphan so more use in her death.

As to whether Democracy is better than monarchy, I would think the question would be is multi party membership in government better than oligarchy, theocracy, monarchy or dictatorship. It seems to me that eventually humanity always returns to a single class or person rule template for government.

Afterall the Pope is the ONLY leader of the Church. An absolute unquestionable ruler, his word is litteraly law and policy should he wish

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Indeed, we should examine the claim of Thomas Aquinas on its own merits.

Is a Monarchy, based on Divine origin (not divine rights) and thus divine obligation more condusive to peace than a factional republic?

To those that say monarchs had all sorts of wars, may I simply point out that the 19th and 20th centuries, the centuries that saw the growth and entrenchment of liberal "democracy" as the standard government is also the centuries that saw the most destructive wars in human history, starting with the Napoleonic War and going to WWII.

Then there are the cases of persecution and democide. The 20th Century, as the Church points out, is the century where more Christians won the Crown of Martydom than all others combined. It is also, especially after WWI, the Century of Democide, the murder by government of its own citizen, though that started in the 1790s with the Vendee genocide.

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01/18/2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: It does when you have a president who usurps constitutional powers that don't belong to him a...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

It does when you have a president who usurps constitutional powers that don't belong to him amid a corrupt and weak Congress (Senate in Rome's case). Obama is becoming like Julius Caesar in his refusal to follow the Constitution on legislative matters.
--hide--

Now you're just being silly. Caesar had the personal loyalty of the Roman army which was quite willing to follow him into Rome itself if need be. Obama does not have any such following among the military. Obama leaves office in 4 years. Even if for the sake of argument I pretended that I agreed with the notion that he is going to try and stay longer, the U.S. miltary will not help him stay. Quite the contrary. The military will be happy to escort him out the door.

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01/18/2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Now you're just being silly. Caesar had the personal loyalty of the Roman army which was quite...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Now you're just being silly. Caesar had the personal loyalty of the Roman army which was quite willing to follow him into Rome itself if need be. Obama does not have any such following among the military. Obama leaves office in 4 years. Even if for the sake of argument I pretended that I agreed with the notion that he is going to try and stay longer, the U.S. miltary will not help him stay. Quite the contrary. The military will be happy to escort him out the door.

--hide--

Does he need the military when he has his paramilitary goon squads (TSA, IRS, etc.). If reports circulating on the Internet are even close to accurate, these organizations may have more small arms ammunition than the military itself. If the majority of the military is deployed overseas (or has been decimated), they won't be in a position to interfere.

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01/18/2013 new
(Quote) John-336509 said: Now you're just being silly. Caesar had the personal loyalty of the Roman army which was qu...
(Quote) John-336509 said:



Now you're just being silly. Caesar had the personal loyalty of the Roman army which was quite willing to follow him into Rome itself if need be. Obama does not have any such following among the military. Obama leaves office in 4 years. Even if for the sake of argument I pretended that I agreed with the notion that he is going to try and stay longer, the U.S. miltary will not help him stay. Quite the contrary. The military will be happy to escort him out the door.

--hide--


It's not a perfect comparison, but the American republic is in advanced state of decay. The military is subservient to civilian control in our system. It would be unthinkable for someone like Pinochet to emerge in our armed forces to overthrow Obama.
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01/19/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Does he need the military when he has his paramilitary goon squads ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Does he need the military when he has his paramilitary goon squads (TSA, IRS, etc.). If reports circulating on the Internet are even close to accurate, these organizations may have more small arms ammunition than the military itself. If the majority of the military is deployed overseas (or has been decimated), they won't be in a position to interfere.

--hide--

The TSA, IRS, etc. are mostly unarmed, and the few and far between armed agents would be no match for the local sheriff's departments. Even if I believed they had more small arms amo than the military, they don't have the weapons and bodies to beat the local sheriff's department, let alone the military, in a fire fight. The vast majority of the military is sitting in the United Sates and has been for many decades.

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01/19/2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: It's not a perfect comparison, but the American republic is in advanced state of decay. The m...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

It's not a perfect comparison, but the American republic is in advanced state of decay. The military is subservient to civilian control in our system. It would be unthinkable for someone like Pinochet to emerge in our armed forces to overthrow Obama.
--hide--

If by "it's not a perfect comparison" you meet it's an incredibly bad comparison, I agree with you.

Nobody needs to emerge to overthrow Obama. Obama goes away in early 2017. If he tries not to, he will be swatted aside like a fly because at that point he will be the one trying to overthrow the government and the military won't follow him.

The only comparison between Rome and the United States does not come from the fall of the Republic, but the fall of the Empire which was engendered by moral decay and financial problems.

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01/19/2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: The TSA, IRS, etc. are mostly unarmed, and the few and far between armed agents would be ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

The TSA, IRS, etc. are mostly unarmed, and the few and far between armed agents would be no match for the local sheriff's departments. Even if I believed they had more small arms amo than the military, they don't have the weapons and bodies to beat the local sheriff's department, let alone the military, in a fire fight. The vast majority of the military is sitting in the United Sates and has been for many decades.

--hide--
John, There are al lot of armed IRS agents, A friend of mine is one of them. They are the ones that go in and lock up business's or companies who fail to pay taxes. The guys going out the doors with all the inventory of corporations. The ones who went in and got Bernie Madoff Records and hard drives. Most of these guys carry a gun in case of any resistance. So my friend Glen tells me who is and IRS agent and does carry .

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