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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Bp, Williamson was excommunicated many years before that interview, which took place two ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Bp, Williamson was excommunicated many years before that interview, which took place two months before the excommunication was lifted.

The reason for the excommunication was that he participated in an unapproved episcopal ordination (his ordination as bishop).

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BTW, since Williamson is from a traditionalist order, or was, I find it a bit unusual that it's in Current Events instead of Tradition & Eastern Church.

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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: BTW, since Williamson is from a traditionalist order, or was, I find it a bit unusual that it...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

BTW, since Williamson is from a traditionalist order, or was, I find it a bit unusual that it's in Current Events instead of Tradition & Eastern Church.

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Why so? It has nothing to do with the Church, the SSPX, or the liturgy.

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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Bp, Williamson was excommunicated many years before that interview, which took place two months before th...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Bp, Williamson was excommunicated many years before that interview, which took place two months before the excommunication was lifted.

The reason for the excommunication was that he participated in an unapproved episcopal ordination (his ordination as bishop).

--hide--

Thanks for the clarifing that Jerry. But didn't Pope Benedict reverse the excommunication until he found out that Bishop Williamson had questioned the Jewish Holocaust? and then Williamson was excommunicated once again?

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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: Thanks for the clarifing that Jerry. But didn't Pope Benedict reverse the excommunication unti...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

Thanks for the clarifing that Jerry. But didn't Pope Benedict reverse the excommunication until he found out that Bishop Williamson had questioned the Jewish Holocaust? and then Williamson was excommunicated once again?

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Not that I am aware of, but then I don't make any special effort to follow the SSPX. I have seen comments in various places which claim Pope Benedict said that had he known of the interview at the time he rescinded the excommunications he would not have done so for Bp. Williamson. I don't know the source of this claim or how accurate it is.

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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) John-711000 said: Thanks for the clarifing that Jerry. But didn'...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
John-711000 said:

Thanks for the clarifing that Jerry. But didn't Pope Benedict reverse the excommunication until he found out that Bishop Williamson had questioned the Jewish Holocaust? and then Williamson was excommunicated once again?


Not that I am aware of, but then I don't make any special effort to follow the SSPX. I have seen comments in various places which claim Pope Benedict said that had he known of the interview at the time he rescinded the excommunications he would not have done so for Bp. Williamson. I don't know the source of this claim or how accurate it is.

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Yes the ecommunication was lifted against the Bishops.That's old news.many years ago.He has been kicked out of the SSPX however.

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Jan 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: Why is this crazy fool still allowed to use the title, Bishop?
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

Why is this crazy fool still allowed to use the title, Bishop?

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Ah ah ah.He is a validly ordained Bishop of the Catholic Church.. smile

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Jan 21st 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Ah ah ah.He is a validly ordained Bishop of the Catholic Church..
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Ah ah ah.He is a validly ordained Bishop of the Catholic Church..

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The Vatican must then find a way to invalidate them, because they are an embarrassment to the Church. Shut these clowns up in a remote Monastery where they can do no harm.

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Jan 21st 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: The Vatican must then find a way to invalidate them, because they are an embarrassment to the Chu...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

The Vatican must then find a way to invalidate them, because they are an embarrassment to the Church. Shut these clowns up in a remote Monastery where they can do no harm.

--hide--

Why are you so hostile to them Peter? I'm just learning about the SSPX, the Traditional movement, and the Novus Ordus mass which I previously referred to as the Vatican II mass. What I learned is that there has been many (schisms) which is now a new word in my vocabulary.

I've recently found out that the Traditional church has broke away from the SSPX which (from my understanding) was the original Traditional church under Marcel Lefebvre of France. And then there's Novus Ordus which seems to mean New World Order. I've seen Bishop Willamson on video and just from what I see (and not know about him) is that he appears to have a genuinely good character, oppposed to many (not all) clownish type Priests who perform the Novus Ordus mass.

I don't think that every Catholic knows what changes have taken place since VII.

I grew up in New Jersey which is a very liberal state or which became at one point. I remember coming into a connecting town and seeing a newly constructed church during a feast, and upon first site thought it was a Protestant church. I later found out it was a Catholic church, and was actually a replacement church for the existing one which was knocked down. I didn't know it at the time but it was a Vatican II church. Vatican II changed the architecture of the original church going back some two thousand years. The original church was shaped as a cross facing the heavens. The VII church was in a modern type of arcitecture and inside it was a semi circle. The exterior was disporportinate and I found it strange..

But eventually I attended mass there, and many years later I pulled up their website and started looking at pictures of the feast they have every year. I used to work the stands there. Well, what I found when looking at the pictures was a overall degeneracy of character. The men I once knew were clownish in their appearance. If you go back a hundred years and look at pictures of the parishinors in that same church you will find a astute charcater that is always on guard. The new character is very careless, and self centered.

I believe the metamorphosis in charcater among today's Catholic men in the church I once attended was due to the VII policy. I believe that they have no idea what actually took place or how their environment was changed for the worse. I think that the schismatics in the church are not good and I think we should not turn our backs on the now different sects of Catholism.

How do you feel about this?

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Jan 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: Why are you so hostile to them Peter? I'm just learning about the SSPX, the Tradition...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

Why are you so hostile to them Peter? I'm just learning about the SSPX, the Traditional movement, and the Novus Ordus mass which I previously referred to as the Vatican II mass. What I learned is that there has been many (schisms) which is now a new word in my vocabulary.

I've recently found out that the Traditional church has broke away from the SSPX which (from my understanding) was the original Traditional church under Marcel Lefebvre of France. And then there's Novus Ordus which seems to mean New World Order. I've seen Bishop Willamson on video and just from what I see (and not know about him) is that he appears to have a genuinely good character, oppposed to many (not all) clownish type Priests who perform the Novus Ordus mass.

I don't think that every Catholic knows what changes have taken place since VII.

I grew up in New Jersey which is a very liberal state or which became at one point. I remember coming into a connecting town and seeing a newly constructed church during a feast, and upon first site thought it was a Protestant church. I later found out it was a Catholic church, and was actually a replacement church for the existing one which was knocked down. I didn't know it at the time but it was a Vatican II church. Vatican II changed the architecture of the original church going back some two thousand years. The original church was shaped as a cross facing the heavens. The VII church was in a modern type of arcitecture and inside it was a semi circle. The exterior was disporportinate and I found it strange..

But eventually I attended mass there, and many years later I pulled up their website and started looking at pictures of the feast they have every year. I used to work the stands there. Well, what I found when looking at the pictures was a overall degeneracy of character. The men I once knew were clownish in their appearance. If you go back a hundred years and look at pictures of the parishinors in that same church you will find a astute charcater that is always on guard. The new character is very careless, and self centered.

I believe the metamorphosis in charcater among today's Catholic men in the church I once attended was due to the VII policy. I believe that they have no idea what actually took place or how their environment was changed for the worse. I think that the schismatics in the church are not good and I think we should not turn our backs on the now different sects of Catholism.

How do you feel about this?

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John, the most important thing you have to understand is that what you label Vatican II Policy, has absolutely nothing to do with Vatican II. The monstrosities you call Vatican II churches only connection with Vatican II was that they were built after VII. They merely demonstrate the bad taste of architects, idiot priests and even worse Bishops

Oh, Novus Ordo does not mean New World Order. Simply translated it is New Order which refers soly to the new rubrics or order for the Mass.

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Jan 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: The Vatican must then find a way to invalidate them, because they are an embarrassment to the Chu...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

The Vatican must then find a way to invalidate them, because they are an embarrassment to the Church. Shut these clowns up in a remote Monastery where they can do no harm.

--hide--

A bishop can be laicized, wherein he is barred from nearly, but not all, priestly duties. Notable examples include Tallyrand of France, Frandando Lugo (2008), Emmanuel Milingo (2009), and Raymond Lahey (2012).

He would not be dispensed from his vow of celibacy, unless a separate dispensation is given, or hearing a dying penitent's confession. In fact, a laicized (popularly known as defrocked) priest or bishop is obliged to hear a dying penitent's confession, and may grant absolution.

Because of the indelible character of the priesthood on the man's soul, a defrocked priest, should be perservere in performing the mass outside of the Church, would still retain the sacramental power to confect the Eucharist. It would be valid, but illicit. Thus, even if Williamson is laicized, which the Church can do, it would not stop him from forming an placing altar against altar in schism.

en.wikipedia.org

In the most related case, that of Emmanuel Milingo, he continued to lead a schismatic prelature even after being defrocked, becoming the "patriarch" of the "Ecumenical Catholic Apostolic Church of Peace," (a garage sect) the very year afterward.

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