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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: I would say Pope Benedict XV new the problems in the church as early as 1917 and Maybe this is w...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

I would say Pope Benedict XV new the problems in the church as early as 1917 and Maybe this is why our Pope now choose to be Benedict XVI. Read this encyclical from 1917 and see if you agree. I think it is spot on, at least here in the USA,www.vatican.va

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It does indeed seem an appropriate moniker that was applied to the Pontificate of Benedict XV by (obstensively) St. Malachy, "Religio depopulata" ("Religion Laid Waste" - his reign was marked by WWI, which was the fruit of man's rejection of Christ, and the Bolshevik Revolution).

www.catholic-pages.com

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: (Quote) Paul-866591 said: Just curious: why is that shocking TO...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Quote:
Paul-866591 said:

Just curious: why is that shocking TO YOU?

I am not judging just looking for information.


Paul I agree. Its a Holy Book by the Last of Gods Prophets so it is merely giving a Sacred Testament the respect it deserves. It dosent make the Pope a Moslem, it shows he is tolerant, respectful of others beliefs and to the Word of Gods Prophet. He also kissed the Talmet in Jerusalem which is the Old Testament but doesnt make him Jewish or any of us Jewish, yet we say Jewish prayers, sing Jewish Psalms, pray to a Jew, follow a Jew, and attempt to live a Jews Words and Teachings, and hope to spend eternity with a Jew

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Patrick you say "Its a Holy Book by the Last of Gods Prophets"? I'm not questioning whether Mohamad was the "Last". I'm questioning whether he was even a prophet.

Back when JP II kissed the Koran I was in a discussion at one of those voice messenger services talking about it. There was a Lebanese Catholic there that was very concerned about this, who was convinced we were in the end times because JP II kissed the Koran. The Lebanese Catholic was a refugee from the Lebanese Cival War who was then living in Sweden. When the Lebanese Catholic left the discussion I said I'll agree with him if and when JP II kisses the Talmud.

Patrick are you sure that JP II kissed the Talmud? That is very troubling if he did, much worse than him kissing the Koran. The Talmud is not the Old Testament. The Talmud is a commentary written by rabbis after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD. It was compiled between 200 AD and 500 AD and it speaks very derogatory about Jesus Christ and Our Blessed Mother. I mean very very derogatory.

Are you sure you don't mean that JP II kissed the Tanakh Patrick? The Tanakh is the canon of the Hebrew Bible. Some modern scholars believe that the process of canonization of the Tanakh was finalized after the life of Jesus, up to 200 AD. Like the Protestant Bible the Tanakh does not include the deuterocanonical books. Luther followed the Tanakh when he compiled his Bible, that's why it's 7 books and part of Daniel and part of Esther short, the deuterocanonical books. The Catholic Bible followed the Septuagint which was a translation to Greek by Jewish scribes in Alexandria around 300 BC which includes the deuterocanonical books. A Protestant convert may recognize the deuterocanonical books as the apocrypha books.

Whether JP II kissed the Talmud or not (yuck, I dread the thought) his Papacy, between kissing the Koran, the Assisi gatherings and many other things is riddled with indifferentism. Myself and many other Catholics were hoping and praying that Pope Benedict did not continue with the Assisi gatherings, but he did.

This is what happens when the Oath Against Modernism gets abandoned.
www.papalencyclicals.net

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Paul I agree. Its a Holy Book by the Last of Gods Prophets so it is merely giving a Sa...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Paul I agree. Its a Holy Book by the Last of Gods Prophets so it is merely giving a Sacred Testament the respect it deserves. It dosent make the Pope a Moslem, it shows he is tolerant, respectful of others beliefs and to the Word of Gods Prophet. He also kissed the Talmet in Jerusalem which is the Old Testament but doesnt make him Jewish or any of us Jewish, yet we say Jewish prayers, sing Jewish Psalms, pray to a Jew, follow a Jew, and attempt to live a Jews Words and Teachings, and hope to spend eternity with a Jew

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The Quran is not a holy book. It is not a book of public revelation by any one of God's prophets. Mohammed lived in the late 500's until about 632 AD. The deposit of faith containing all of public revelation was closed at the death of the Apostle St. John in the year 100 AD. It sounds very montanist to suggest that the writings which Mohammed's followers wrote down were a Sacred Testament. It's also absurd to suggest that any sort of testament is deserving of respect...as there is no judgment in a testament to which to defer.

Also, if by Talmet you're referring to the Talmud, that is something utterly extra-scriptural. The Talmud is a collection of rabbinical writings to explain religious and legal norms...and is in no way synonymous with the Old Testament.

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: I have recently watched and read up on subliminal messages in television and art. I came across a ...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

I have recently watched and read up on subliminal messages in television and art. I came across a video which stated that the San Damiano cross has a phallus hidden on the stomach of Christ.

en.wikipedia.org

After watching and reading up on subliminals I took my crucifix off the wall and started to examine it. I found a phallus on it too. I also found a skull on Jesus's right hip which was hidden in his loincloth, his feet of were unusually long as were the toes and resembled the feet of Satan. I came to the conclusion that whoever made the cross put those messages there deliberately to mock Jesus.

I bought the cross in a small Catholic shop Via della Conciliazione which means 'way of reconciliation' in 1987 when Pope John Paul II was the Pope. Subliminal messages have been used for thousands of years and historically Popes would have to examine all artwork to search for these very dangerous types of hidden messages.

What type of Pope does not check artwork for this very serious crime?.. I think that alone should convince anyone that he was not a good Pope, and when examining him further one can resonably conclude that he was not a good man either.

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Don't believe every conspiracy theory that you read online John. The idea that the San Damiano cross has a phallus hidden on the stomach of Christ was dreamt up by a crazy woman with a vivid imagination.

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: Hi Patrick, All those things that you mentioned ("in bold and quoted in my pr...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

Hi Patrick,


All those things that you mentioned ("in bold and quoted in my prior message") were copied and quoted from John's previous message. They are not my words. I was arguing against John's comments. Please reread my post at the preceding post from John and I think that you will see that you misunderstood my post.


God bless,


Ed

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Sorry my apologises, but the arguements remain valid but I agree with you not the highlighted ones

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Excuse me, although I am sincerely interested in why someone thinks JPII's gesture wa...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Excuse me, although I am sincerely interested in why someone thinks JPII's gesture was inappropriate, I am not interested in someone spouting utter nonsense.

The Koran IS NOT a Holy book by the last of God's Prophets. Muslim's believe it is a holy book, but Mohammad is not the Last of God's Prophets.

Because it is believed to be a holy book by sincere Muslims, I personally see no problem in a Pope expressing honor towards an object venerated by sincere God believers.

Incidentally, there is also strong but not irrefutable evidence that the Mohammad of the Koran never existed. If that is true, that would indicate that whoever he was is less likely to be God's Last Prophet than I am.

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OH PLEASE!!!! The Koran IS a Holy book just as the Talmet is a Holy Book, there are 4 copies of each in the Secret Archives of the Vatican, my mother saw one in 1956 when the Popes secretary, a family friend, gave her a tour. Mohammed WAS and IS one of Gods prophets, and since no more have appeared he was the last.

Yeah and the Moon landings were faked, and the Aliens stalk the midwest abducting farmers and eviscerating cows and lets not forget the crop circles. What bollocks!!!!

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: OH PLEASE!!!! The Koran IS a Holy book just as the Talmet is a Holy Book, there are 4 copies of...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

OH PLEASE!!!! The Koran IS a Holy book just as the Talmet is a Holy Book, there are 4 copies of each in the Secret Archives of the Vatican, my mother saw one in 1956 when the Popes secretary, a family friend, gave her a tour. Mohammed WAS and IS one of Gods prophets, and since no more have appeared he was the last.

Yeah and the Moon landings were faked, and the Aliens stalk the midwest abducting farmers and eviscerating cows and lets not forget the crop circles. What bollocks!!!!

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Please define "holy book" as you use the term here.

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Excuse me, although I am sincerely interested in why someone thinks JPII's gesture was inappro...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Excuse me, although I am sincerely interested in why someone thinks JPII's gesture was inappropriate, I am not interested in someone spouting utter nonsense.

The Koran IS NOT a Holy book by the last of God's Prophets. Muslim's believe it is a holy book, but Mohammad is not the Last of God's Prophets.

Because it is believed to be a holy book by sincere Muslims, I personally see no problem in a Pope expressing honor towards an object venerated by sincere God believers.

Incidentally, there is also strong but not irrefutable evidence that the Mohammad of the Koran never existed. If that is true, that would indicate that whoever he was is less likely to be God's Last Prophet than I am.

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Contestant #2 - same question I asked #1: please define the term "holy book" as you use it here.

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: Don't believe every conspiracy theory that you read online John. The idea that the San...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Don't believe every conspiracy theory that you read online John. The idea that the San Damiano cross has a phallus hidden on the stomach of Christ was dreamt up by a crazy woman with a vivid imagination.

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I'm not too quick to believe anything. When any subliminal message is pointed out then it becomes very obvious, in fact the phallus on the San Damiano cross can be easily seen.

An article about Satanic art.

www.wnd.com

A website which has a DVD available.

www.rapeofthesoul.com

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02/03/2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: (Quote) John-711000 said: I originally viewed Pope John Paul II's act ...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Quote:
John-711000 said:

I originally viewed Pope John Paul II's act of kissing the Koran as a betrayal of our church. If I'm wrong I would like to be debated on the points of my argument. Let the debate on the kissing of the Koran be centered on the act of indifference, and compare the warnings of Pius X to JP II. There are many types of indifference and I would like to reach a better understanding.


Here is a response I found in which there may be doubt that it was a Koran at all! Yikes.If true, time me for me to go to confession!Again! The Internet rumor mill strikes again! www.freerepublic.com

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I certainly hope that it is proven that JP II did not kiss the Koran. But back then when it was suppose to have happened the rumor was very widespread and many Catholics were very concerned about it. Seeing that it was so widespread, if JP II in fact did not kiss the Koran you would think at least someone from the Vatican would have proven that he didn't.

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