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Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: "Why do you make these things up?" www.youtube.com.
(Quote) John-711000 said:

"Why do you make these things up?"

www.youtube.com


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Oh don't listen to the Dimond Brothers John. They are sedevacantists through and through.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: (Quote) John-711000 said: "Why do you make these things up?&quo...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Quote:
John-711000 said:

"Why do you make these things up?"

www.youtube.com



Oh don't listen to the Diamond Brothers John. They are sedevacantists through and through.

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Yes, the Diamond Brothers have really gone off the deep end!The problem with Sedevacantism is you can never prove it! Why put one's self in jeopardy.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: "Why do you make these things up?" www.youtube.com.
(Quote) John-711000 said:

"Why do you make these things up?"

www.youtube.com


--hide--

Why direct me to a video mnade by a sade vacante scismatic?

What He had to say on tehr video is worth less than bucket of warm spit.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: (Quote) Mike-41230 said: If you are a sedevacantist believing that...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

Quote:
Mike-41230 said:

If you are a sedevacantist believing that the Chair of Peter is vacant then you are no longer a Catholic. Plain and simple.


I'll have to update my profile that I no longer believe that the Pope is infallible. You see how Pope Benedict proves that he is fallible? If not I'll point it out to you..when he made his announcement for Holocaust memorial day which actually is focused only on the Jews, he never says a word about the dangers of Holocaust denial laws.

And how many passages speak that the only way to the father is through the son? You see..? he went and continues to go against Roman Catholic dogma. Pope John Paul II said the Jews didn't need Jesus for salavation. That's just off the top of my head, a true investigation of the false Popes would reveal even more.

Anyway, thanks for helping me.

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John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is completely nuts. I didn't realize that Pope John Paul II said the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation. But I wouldn't doubt it because I have read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper the President Emeritus of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity that said the Jews may not need Jesus for justification. And since 2010 the new President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch is saying the same. The Commission of the Holy See for Religious Relations with the Jews is the responsibility of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity origins are associated with the Second Vatican Council. Pope John XXIII wanted the Catholic Church to engage in the contemporary ecumenical movement. He established a "Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity" on 5 June 1960 as one of the preparatory commissions for the Council, and appointed Augustin Cardinal Bea as its first president.

I have also read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper that said the Protestants are part of the Catholic Church whether they realize it or not. Well I know for a fact that many Protestant denominations still do not want to be part of the Catholic Church and are still spewing the same anti-Catholic venom they have been for the last 500 years. This all flies in the face of all those martyrs of the Protestant Reformation. All those good priests that were hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Holy Mass.

Ecumenicism is just crazy. When Bernard posted The Oath Against Modernism by His Holiness Pope St. Pius X this sentence from his Papal Encyclical jumped out at me to clearly describe ecumenicism, "Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical' misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously." Everyone should read this Papal Encyclical. It's not hard to understand.
www.papalencyclicals.net

Vatican officials have said that the Second Vatican Council was not a dogmatic council and that it did not change any dogma of the Church. But if you read the above it is like a play on words. That one sentence from The Oath Against Moderdism comes to mind.

Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four SSPX bishops that Archbishop Lefebvre ordained. The talks between the Vatican and the SSPX are ongoing about the Society being regulated. The last I heard is that the Vatican is forcing the SSPX to accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council before the Society is regulated. But how can the SSPX accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council when it flies in the face of Catholic Tradition. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally I think the Vatican is putting the Jews before a Society of Catholics that are loyal to Traditional Catholic teachings.

That all said John we can not give up hope. We still have to believe that the Holy Ghost is still guiding the Catholic Church. I know it's difficult, but that's what we have to do. And pray a lot.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: "Why do you make these things up?" www.youtube.com.
(Quote) John-711000 said:

"Why do you make these things up?"

www.youtube.com


--hide--

The vary claim that the Seat of Peter has been vacant for the last for the last 55 years defeats itself.

Christ said that He would be with the Church until the end of the world and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

If the claim that the seat of Peter has been vacant all this time were true, and Pope Benedict has spouted all these alleged heresies, then the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church.

And if that is true, Christ lied.

If Christ lied, He could not be God.

If Jesus Christ is not God, then anyone who has followed His teachings or spent even a moment of time thinking about them has wasted their time. Christianity in any of its manifestations, is nothing more than the greatest and longest hoax ever perpetrated on man. And all accomp-lished by a Carpenter, 10 uneducated fishermen and one despised tax collector.

Dom you really want to follow the idea you are here espousing down that path?

LOCKED
Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is complete...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is completely nuts. I didn't realize that Pope John Paul II said the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation. But I wouldn't doubt it because I have read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper the President Emeritus of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity that said the Jews may not need Jesus for justification. And since 2010 the new President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch is saying the same. The Commission of the Holy See for Religious Relations with the Jews is the responsibility of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity origins are associated with the Second Vatican Council. Pope John XXIII wanted the Catholic Church to engage in the contemporary ecumenical movement. He established a "Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity" on 5 June 1960 as one of the preparatory commissions for the Council, and appointed Augustin Cardinal Bea as its first president.

I have also read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper that said the Protestants are part of the Catholic Church whether they realize it or not. Well I know for a fact that many Protestant denominations still do not want to be part of the Catholic Church and are still spewing the same anti-Catholic venom they have been for the last 500 years. This all flies in the face of all those martyrs of the Protestant Reformation. All those good priests that were hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Holy Mass.

Ecumenicism is just crazy. When Bernard posted The Oath Against Modernism by His Holiness Pope St. Pius X this sentence from his Papal Encyclical jumped out at me to clearly describe ecumenicism, "Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical' misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously." Everyone should read this Papal Encyclical. It's not hard to understand.
www.papalencyclicals.net

Vatican officials have said that the Second Vatican Council was not a dogmatic council and that it did not change any dogma of the Church. But if you read the above it is like a play on words. That one sentence from The Oath Against Moderdism comes to mind.

Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four SSPX bishops that Archbishop Lefebvre ordained. The talks between the Vatican and the SSPX are ongoing about the Society being regulated. The last I heard is that the Vatican is forcing the SSPX to accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council before the Society is regulated. But how can the SSPX accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council when it flies in the face of Catholic Tradition. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally I think the Vatican is putting the Jews before a Society of Catholics that are loyal to Traditional Catholic teachings.

That all said John we can not give up hope. We still have to believe that the Holy Ghost is still guiding the Catholic Church. I know it's difficult, but that's what we have to do. And pray a lot.

--hide--

All I can do is shake my head in wonderment at how little Catholics know or understand about their Faith. Your note touches on several areas: ecumenism, the Status of the Second Vatican Council, how those outside of the Church like Jews, Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics and atheists, etc can and do achieve salvation and the meaning of excommunication.

The VII was not a dogmatic Council in the sense that it did not make any pronouncements that had the status of new Dogma. Its documents do explain and amplify teachings already existing. Dogmas have never changed, but man's and the Church's understanding of them does in the sense that it is better and fuller understanding and it can and does occur.

Everything VII taught in its documents has been a teaching of he church for 2000 years.

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Mike-41230 said: John the problem is the ecumenicism of th...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Mike-41230 said:

John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is completely nuts. I didn't realize that Pope John Paul II said the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation. But I wouldn't doubt it because I have read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper the President Emeritus of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity that said the Jews may not need Jesus for justification. And since 2010 the new President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch is saying the same. The Commission of the Holy See for Religious Relations with the Jews is the responsibility of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity origins are associated with the Second Vatican Council. Pope John XXIII wanted the Catholic Church to engage in the contemporary ecumenical movement. He established a "Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity" on 5 June 1960 as one of the preparatory commissions for the Council, and appointed Augustin Cardinal Bea as its first president.

I have also read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper that said the Protestants are part of the Catholic Church whether they realize it or not. Well I know for a fact that many Protestant denominations still do not want to be part of the Catholic Church and are still spewing the same anti-Catholic venom they have been for the last 500 years. This all flies in the face of all those martyrs of the Protestant Reformation. All those good priests that were hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Holy Mass.

Ecumenicism is just crazy. When Bernard posted The Oath Against Modernism by His Holiness Pope St. Pius X this sentence from his Papal Encyclical jumped out at me to clearly describe ecumenicism, "Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical' misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously." Everyone should read this Papal Encyclical. It's not hard to understand.
www.papalencyclicals.net

Vatican officials have said that the Second Vatican Council was not a dogmatic council and that it did not change any dogma of the Church. But if you read the above it is like a play on words. That one sentence from The Oath Against Moderdism comes to mind.

Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four SSPX bishops that Archbishop Lefebvre ordained. The talks between the Vatican and the SSPX are ongoing about the Society being regulated. The last I heard is that the Vatican is forcing the SSPX to accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council before the Society is regulated. But how can the SSPX accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council when it flies in the face of Catholic Tradition. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally I think the Vatican is putting the Jews before a Society of Catholics that are loyal to Traditional Catholic teachings.

That all said John we can not give up hope. We still have to believe that the Holy Ghost is still guiding the Catholic Church. I know it's difficult, but that's what we have to do. And pray a lot.


All I can do is shake my head in wonderment at how little Catholics know or understand about their Faith. Your note touches on several areas: ecumenism, the Status of the Second Vatican Council, how those outside of the Church like Jews, Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics and atheists, etc can and do achieve salvation and the meaning of excommunication.

The VII was not a dogmatic Council in the sense that it did not make any pronouncements that had the status of new Dogma. Its documents do explain and amplify teachings already existing. Dogmas have never changed, but man's and the Church's understanding of them does in the sense that it is better and fuller understanding and it can and does occur.

Everything VII taught in its documents has been a teaching of he church for 2000 years.

--hide--

Well please elaborate Paul. I know of invincible ignorance which is used to refer to the state of persons, such as pagans and infants who are ignorant of the Christian message because they have not yet had an opportunity to hear it.

And I know of baptism of desire. "We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose over the Emperor Valentinian II, a catechumen. The doctrine of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose asks: "Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (On Baptism, Against the Donatists, IV.22) and St. Bernard (Ep. lxxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire. If it be said that this doctrine contradicts the universal law of baptism made by Christ (John 3), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John 14) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire. Neither would it be a consequence of this doctrine that a person justified by the baptism of desire would thereby be dispensed from seeking after the baptism of water when the latter became a possibility. For, as has already been explained the baptismus flaminis contains the votum of receiving the baptismus aquæ. It is true that some of the Fathers of the Church arraign severely those who content themselves with the desire of receiving the sacrament of regeneration, but they are speaking of catechumens who of their own accord delay the reception of baptism from unpraiseworthy motives. Finally, it is to be noted that only adults are capable of receiving the baptism of desire."
www.newadvent.org

And I know that in the end days when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in God will send His two witnesses for the conversion of the Jews. In Chapter 4 Malichi is saying in the end days God will send Elijah (Elias in a Catholic Bible), where he shall come for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ. This can also be confirmed with the Epistle of Paul to the Romans, Chapters 9, 10 and 11, which also mentions Elias, where Paul is lamenting over his brethren. Also in Apocalypse chapter 11 we see that God will send His two witnesses to Jerusalem during the 42 months of tribulations to prophesy clothed in sackcloth until they are killed 3 and a half days before the day of judgment. The Douay-Rheims Bible recognizes the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11 as Henoch and Elias. But it should be noted that Romans 11:28 says "As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers."

And I know that the Catholic Church, which includes us, has been given the commission from God to continually take His Word to all peoples and nations, which would include to the Jews.

And I have read Saint Victorinus' Commentary on the Apocalypse. Saint Victorinus is a Father of the Church who flourished about 270 AD, 200 years after the destruction of the Second Temple. With the Zionist's plan to build the Third Temple Saint Victorinus is looking like a prophet these days.
www.newadvent.org

So what am I missing Paul?

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

Paul,


I agree... especially with the last two paragraphs of your last post.


Ed

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: Koran is not a Holy book only to muslims and the same goes with mohammad, he is not a profit in ...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Koran is not a Holy book only to muslims and the same goes with mohammad, he is not a profit in the Catholic faith and never will be and never was. Jesus is the first and the last and that is it. mohammad is nobody. So lets see killing infidels who are Catholics is a holy thing to do ??? Give me a break Patrick you seem smatter then this.

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Thomas the killing of anybody is wrong, except by the state as sanctioned by law, ie execution by lawful judgement. There is NOWHERE in the Koran that orders the killing of Infidels, try reading it first, I suggest you get a copy from Project Guttenburg where you can a translation from the 18th or 19th century which is more accurate and less properganda of the God Botherers. Just as there is NOWHERE in the New Testament proclaimining the murder of Jews and Moslems, but it never stopped the Crusades, the Russian Pograms, or the persecution of non Christians by the Church these were the product of Man not God. So give me a break and know your stuff first. Keep an open mind as thats the way information enters and ideas are formed.

I never said anything in my previous post about internicean murder and you know it.Thou shalt not kill may be a Commandment you have heard of.

And by definition the Koran and the Telmet are Holy Books and Mohammed was a Prophet. I never said anywhere that you had to treat it like the Bible, but you do have to treat Mohammed with the same respect as we show the Prophets of the Old Testament.

Respect and tollerance are common Human Virtues that bring peace and stability, and stave off the Evil One

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Feb 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: All I can do is shake my head in wonderment at how little Catholics know or understand ab...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

All I can do is shake my head in wonderment at how little Catholics know or understand about their Faith. Your note touches on several areas: ecumenism, the Status of the Second Vatican Council, how those outside of the Church like Jews, Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics and atheists, etc can and do achieve salvation and the meaning of excommunication.

The VII was not a dogmatic Council in the sense that it did not make any pronouncements that had the status of new Dogma. Its documents do explain and amplify teachings already existing. Dogmas have never changed, but man's and the Church's understanding of them does in the sense that it is better and fuller understanding and it can and does occur.

Everything VII taught in its documents has been a teaching of he church for 2000 years.

--hide--

Well spoken sir. Salvation is there for the asking by anyone. Our role as Catholics is to leed by example and help them find their way to Him. But if not a Good Man is a Good Man no matter colour or creed or nation and is judged by God on action and intention, on the colour of their Heart and Soul

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