Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match!

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Feb 4th 2013 new

My suggestion that you consult a good Catholic priest with your serious concerns about the Catholic Church and it's leadership was not meant to belittle you. You have written (in this thread) about very serious concerns that could well be addressed by a good Catholic priest with sound education and training. My suggestion was meant as a prudent action as the issues that you have been bringing to the surface are very serious indeed.


.... And, I did not use God's name in vain.


Ed

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is complete...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

John the problem is the ecumenicism of the Second Vatican Council. I agree, it is completely nuts. I didn't realize that Pope John Paul II said the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation. But I wouldn't doubt it because I have read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper the President Emeritus of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity that said the Jews may not need Jesus for justification. And since 2010 the new President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch is saying the same. The Commission of the Holy See for Religious Relations with the Jews is the responsibility of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity origins are associated with the Second Vatican Council. Pope John XXIII wanted the Catholic Church to engage in the contemporary ecumenical movement. He established a "Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity" on 5 June 1960 as one of the preparatory commissions for the Council, and appointed Augustin Cardinal Bea as its first president.

I have also read a document by Cardinal Walter Kasper that said the Protestants are part of the Catholic Church whether they realize it or not. Well I know for a fact that many Protestant denominations still do not want to be part of the Catholic Church and are still spewing the same anti-Catholic venom they have been for the last 500 years. This all flies in the face of all those martyrs of the Protestant Reformation. All those good priests that were hung, drawn and quartered just for saying the Holy Mass.

Ecumenicism is just crazy. When Bernard posted The Oath Against Modernism by His Holiness Pope St. Pius X this sentence from his Papal Encyclical jumped out at me to clearly describe ecumenicism, "Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical' misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously." Everyone should read this Papal Encyclical. It's not hard to understand.
www.papalencyclicals.net

Vatican officials have said that the Second Vatican Council was not a dogmatic council and that it did not change any dogma of the Church. But if you read the above it is like a play on words. That one sentence from The Oath Against Moderdism comes to mind.

Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four SSPX bishops that Archbishop Lefebvre ordained. The talks between the Vatican and the SSPX are ongoing about the Society being regulated. The last I heard is that the Vatican is forcing the SSPX to accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council before the Society is regulated. But how can the SSPX accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council when it flies in the face of Catholic Tradition. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally I think the Vatican is putting the Jews before a Society of Catholics that are loyal to Traditional Catholic teachings.

That all said John we can not give up hope. We still have to believe that the Holy Ghost is still guiding the Catholic Church. I know it's difficult, but that's what we have to do. And pray a lot.

--hide--

Which flies in the face of Catholic Catechism (Tradition) the Society of Saint Pius X or the 2nd Vatican Council? Please clarify.

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: Is taking the position of a Sedevacantist really such a bad thing, even afte...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

Is taking the position of a Sedevacantist really such a bad thing, even after Pope John Paul II claimed that the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation? Isn't our faith centered around him? Pope Benedict went a step further into the heretical sphere by stating that our religion is an inheritance from the Jews

www.catholicnews.com

--hide--

No our Faith is Jesus, but Jews arent Christians they are Jews but they can still be good people as can Hindus, Moslem and other people (excluding Real Satanists of Course)

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: For someone who claims to be so intelligwent, you truly misread what I said. I did...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

For someone who claims to be so intelligwent, you truly misread what I said.

I did say that the Muslim's consider the Koran to be a holy book. But if you accept the teachings of the Old and New Testaments, it is not holy. A truly holy book would not teach heresy. Muslim also believe he is one of God's prophets.

Mohammad is no more one of God's prophets than you are.

The fact that the Vatican library has one or a thousand copies of the Koran does not endow it with any "holiness." The Vatican Library also has many copies of pornographic works as well as many other condemned writings. Does that mean they are all "holy? Get real!

Your last paragraph is, unintelligible and a clear example of a non sequitur that has nothing to do with the subject under discussion or anything else..

--hide--

Nothing in this thread has relevance to the original post of GERMAN COURT FINES BISHOP FOR HOLOCAUST DENIAL

The last sentence is satirical not a non secquitor and has everything to do with the looney fringe

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: Well please elaborate Paul. I know of invincible ignorance which is used to refer to the s...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Well please elaborate Paul. I know of invincible ignorance which is used to refer to the state of persons, such as pagans and infants who are ignorant of the Christian message because they have not yet had an opportunity to hear it.

And I know of baptism of desire. "We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose over the Emperor Valentinian II, a catechumen. The doctrine of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose asks: "Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (On Baptism, Against the Donatists, IV.22) and St. Bernard (Ep. lxxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire. If it be said that this doctrine contradicts the universal law of baptism made by Christ (John 3), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John 14) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire. Neither would it be a consequence of this doctrine that a person justified by the baptism of desire would thereby be dispensed from seeking after the baptism of water when the latter became a possibility. For, as has already been explained the baptismus flaminis contains the votum of receiving the baptismus aquæ. It is true that some of the Fathers of the Church arraign severely those who content themselves with the desire of receiving the sacrament of regeneration, but they are speaking of catechumens who of their own accord delay the reception of baptism from unpraiseworthy motives. Finally, it is to be noted that only adults are capable of receiving the baptism of desire."
www.newadvent.org

And I know that in the end days when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in God will send His two witnesses for the conversion of the Jews. In Chapter 4 Malichi is saying in the end days God will send Elijah (Elias in a Catholic Bible), where he shall come for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ. This can also be confirmed with the Epistle of Paul to the Romans, Chapters 9, 10 and 11, which also mentions Elias, where Paul is lamenting over his brethren. Also in Apocalypse chapter 11 we see that God will send His two witnesses to Jerusalem during the 42 months of tribulations to prophesy clothed in sackcloth until they are killed 3 and a half days before the day of judgment. The Douay-Rheims Bible recognizes the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11 as Henoch and Elias. But it should be noted that Romans 11:28 says "As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers."

And I know that the Catholic Church, which includes us, has been given the commission from God to continually take His Word to all peoples and nations, which would include to the Jews.

And I have read Saint Victorinus' Commentary on the Apocalypse. Saint Victorinus is a Father of the Church who flourished about 270 AD, 200 years after the destruction of the Second Temple. With the Zionist's plan to build the Third Temple Saint Victorinus is looking like a prophet these days.
www.newadvent.org

So what am I missing Paul?

--hide--

Invincible ignorance applies to any person who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Message of Jesus. And the all applies to everyone, pagans, Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, agnostics, and atheists, no exceptions. In that sense it could be said that they do not need Jesus Christ or more accurately, they do not need knowledge of Jesus Christ as professed by the Catholic church to be saved. They must have lived a life in accordance with the dictates of Natural Law which is knowledgeable by the exercise of normal reasoning by anyone who has the ability to think.

However, everyone's salvation comes from Jesus Christ through His Church. So, a Protestant, properly baptised in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is a member of the Catholic Church whether they realize or not.

All of the above, greatly simplified for the obvious reason of space, has been the constant teaching of the church for over 2000 years.

Having saiud that, a question for you, explain why you believe ecumenism is an evil that has somehow negatively infected the Church?

The whole purpose of the Church's push for ecumenism is to bring all the separated fellow Christians to the fullness of the Church. There is no intent to "water down" Church teachings, Doctrines or Dogma.

For example, since the days of the Council there have been continuing talks between Rome and the Orthodox Churches. The progress in those continuing talks has ebbed and flowed over the years. But they have progressed to the point that in general there is no theological problem of importance keeping us separated. Not much progress has been made to resolve the problems involved with the administration of the Church; i.e the Poipe's position and the understanding of both sides on the question of infallibility.

A serious set back to progress occurred under JP II. after the fall of the USSR, he determined to establish to name some new Bishops to administer the remnents of the Catholic Churches in Russia who had allegiance to the Papacy. He instructed the diplomatic arm of the Vatican to approach the Russian Orthodox Patriarch and to the extent necessary as deemed necessary by that Patriarh with other Bishops of the Orthodox Chuirch to infomr them of the Pope's intent and to hear and resolve any objections they might have to his plan. He was assured his directives had been followed and agreement reached. In fact they had not. So he went ahead with his appointments and specification of the areas they were responsible for.

The Russian Patriarch, who was in the dark, was horrified and JPII action. The ensuing freeze poisoned relations and stalled progress with not just the Russian Orthodox Church but all the Orthodox Churches. That freeze barely thawed while JP lived. General talks between Rome and the Orthodox Churches continued however.

Incidentally, the Coptic Orthodox Pope who died last year would probably have brought his church back to Rome sooner rather than later if he had lived. Of course that is now complicated because of the newly elected Pope and the coming of the Arab Spring and the ascendance of the extremist Muslims now in charge in Cairo.

Talks have as lo been underway all this time with many Protestant denominations. Unfortunately, the only Protestant denominations which have a organizational structure that lends itself to these kinds of talks are all the old line Protestant Churches like the Lutherans, Anglicans, etc. all of which have been suffering severe looses of members over the years. However, Catholic participants in the talks have said, their has been remarkable progress with the Lutherans compared to the others.

The Anglicans are an interesting case. Officially, they continue to draw further and further away with the ordination of women priests and bishops and practisiong homosexuals, along with their seeming approval of gay so-called marriage. But the undercurrent there is the number of Anglican priests, Bishops and Parishes that are coming to Rome on their own because of the continuing liberalization of the official Anglican church. Hence, the Popes's accommodation .

In light of these facts, your expressed concerns over the Chuirch's efforts in ecuminism are puzzling.

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Nothing in this thread has relevance to the original post of GERMAN COURT FINES BISHOP...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Nothing in this thread has relevance to the original post of GERMAN COURT FINES BISHOP FOR HOLOCAUST DENIAL

The last sentence is satirical not a non secquitor and has everything to do with the looney fringe

--hide--

You're writing a lot of irrelevant things in this thread that are confusing. Just one question, with one answer..are you saying that Bishop Williamson is part of a "looney fringe" ?

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) John-711000 said: Is taking the position of a Sedevacantist really such a bad thing, even afte...
(Quote) John-711000 said:

Is taking the position of a Sedevacantist really such a bad thing, even after Pope John Paul II claimed that the Jews didn't need Jesus for salvation? Isn't our faith centered around him? Pope Benedict went a step further into the heretical sphere by stating that our religion is an inheritance from the Jews

www.catholicnews.com

--hide--

Let's see. Christ was a Jew. The Church has accepted the books of the Old Testament as part of Scripture. Unless I am mistaken those books came from the Jews. And they are part of the foundation of the Churche's beliefs. The Apostles, including St. Paul were all Jews.

In God's plan, as revealed in the Old Testament, without the Jews there would have been no salvation and hence no Church.

Now if that is not an inheritance from the Jews, what is it?

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: My suggestion that you consult a good Catholic priest with your serious concerns about the Cath...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

My suggestion that you consult a good Catholic priest with your serious concerns about the Catholic Church and it's leadership was not meant to belittle you. You have written (in this thread) about very serious concerns that could well be addressed by a good Catholic priest with sound education and training. My suggestion was meant as a prudent action as the issues that you have been bringing to the surface are very serious indeed.


.... And, I did not use God's name in vain.


Ed

--hide--

I'll take your advice Ed, thanks.

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Let's see. Christ was a Jew. The Church has accepted the books of the Old Testament a...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Let's see. Christ was a Jew. The Church has accepted the books of the Old Testament as part of Scripture. Unless I am mistaken those books came from the Jews. And they are part of the foundation of the Churche's beliefs. The Apostles, including St. Paul were all Jews.

In God's plan, as revealed in the Old Testament, without the Jews there would have been no salvation and hence no Church.

Now if that is not an inheritance from the Jews, what is it?

--hide--

I don't believe Christ was a Jew, how could that be possible since Jesus is the son of God. In Chapter 8 verse 44 of Saint John Jesus makes it clear that he is not a Jew. My understanding and experience with Jews is that they look down upon all 'gentiles' like stupid animals. They are taught that they are a superior people. Their religion is based on the matrilineal line and they identify in terms of racial supremacy. I see a great distinction between Roman Catholics and Jews which are in essence two entirely different religions.

LOCKED
Feb 4th 2013 new

I do believe that there are also several/numerous cases now (within the past few years) of Anglican priests coming into full communion with the teachings of the Catholic Church, and bringing many of their parish members with them in the conversion, with the invitation and acceptance of Pope Benedict. How could this be seen as anything but a good development? My understanding is that these "converted parishes" (for lack of a better phrase) are permitted to retain certain prayers that they have become used to over the years, but their Mass service in no way in contradictory to Catholic teaching.


Here are a few samples...


Former Anglican Archbishop Is Happy to Be a Catholic Parish Priest

www.ncregister.com


Local Episcopal priest to convert to Catholicism

www.salemnews.com


South Carolina Episcopal Parish Members to Convert to Catholic Church

www.sanctepater.com


Eleven Anglican Sisters to be received into the Catholic Church

www.catholicherald.co.uk


Without reaching out to the Anglicans with and invitation by Pope Benedict, this would not be happening. To me, this seems to be a very good thing for the Church.


Ed

This topic has been automatically locked due to size. Any further discussion can be continued in a new topic.
LOCKED
Posts 191 - 200 of 200