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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Which part?
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Which part?

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The whole tirade!

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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: No Paul I did not contradict myself. And I did not say the Leonine prayers were said after...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

No Paul I did not contradict myself. And I did not say the Leonine prayers were said after the dismissal. I said the Leonine prayers are said after the Last Gospel, John 1. The Last Gospel is said after the Last Blessing. We have finished every Latin Mass that I have been to in the last couple of years with the Last Gospel and the Leonine prayers, exactly like it has in my Latin-English Booklet Missal for praying the Traditional Mass.

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Mike, I have no idea what miss you are using. The oly Missal that counts (in a Roman Catholic Church) is the Roman Missal.

Both the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin Mass end with the Final blessing and the dismissal by the Priest. Nothing that takes place after that is an official part of the Mass. There is no last gospel that is an official part of the Mass.

There is only one reading of the Gospel that is an offical part of the Mass and that takes place before the offertory.

There are all kinds of devotions that are used all over the world that are not offical parts of the Mass.

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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Mike, I have no idea what miss you are using. The oly Missal that counts (in a Roman Cath...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Mike, I have no idea what miss you are using. The oly Missal that counts (in a Roman Catholic Church) is the Roman Missal.

Both the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin Mass end with the Final blessing and the dismissal by the Priest. Nothing that takes place after that is an official part of the Mass. There is no last gospel that is an official part of the Mass.

There is only one reading of the Gospel that is an offical part of the Mass and that takes place before the offertory.

There are all kinds of devotions that are used all over the world that are not offical parts of the Mass.

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The Last Gospel is included in the General Rubrics of the 1962 Missal (section XII - The Blessing at the end of Mass and the Gospel of Saint John); the Leonine prayers are not.

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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: (Quote) Paul-866591 said: Oh! and by the way similar to your No. 2, the r...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Quote:
Paul-866591 said:

Oh! and by the way similar to your No. 2, the readings in the Novus Ordo have been the same for 40 + years. All that has changed is the official translation used in English speaking countries. So someone who bought a Novus Ordo missal then could still be using it today at least as far as the readings are concerned..


Only for one of three years in the ordinary form, if that. The ordinary form uses a three year Lectionary for the Sundays, and a Two Year one for the Feria days.

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Steven, you and Paul appear to be quibbling over how different publishers have chosen to print their missals. Some are reprinted each year and include only the portion of the lectionary used during that year; others may include the entire lectionary and thus could be used, as Paul notes, every year.

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Jan 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Which part? The whole tir...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

Which part?


The whole tirade!

--hide--
What if it's all true? Then it's not a tirade. wink

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Jan 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: What if it's all true? Then it's not a tirade.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

What if it's all true? Then it's not a tirade.

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Since none of it was true, it is a tirade.

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Jan 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Steven, you and Paul appear to be quibbling over how different publishers have chosen to ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Steven, you and Paul appear to be quibbling over how different publishers have chosen to print their missals. Some are reprinted each year and include only the portion of the lectionary used during that year; others may include the entire lectionary and thus could be used, as Paul notes, every year.

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Sorry Jerry, I am not quibbling about how different publishers have chosen to print their missals. As I made very clear, the only missal that counts (in the Roman rite) is the Roman Missal pusblished by the Vatican.

It has been a while since I looked at my copy of the 1962 missal. Relying solely on my memory, the Gospel of John at the end of Mass was not included. But then my memory can be faulty.

The main point is that Leonine prayers have never been, and are no now an offical part of the Mass. They have always been a discretionary pious practice. A local Bishop may have required them in his diocese in some instances.

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Jan 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Sorry Jerry, I am not quibbling about how different publishers have chosen to print their...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Sorry Jerry, I am not quibbling about how different publishers have chosen to print their missals. As I made very clear, the only missal that counts (in the Roman rite) is the Roman Missal pusblished by the Vatican.

It has been a while since I looked at my copy of the 1962 missal. Relying solely on my memory, the Gospel of John at the end of Mass was not included. But then my memory can be faulty.

The main point is that Leonine prayers have never been, and are no now an offical part of the Mass. They have always been a discretionary pious practice. A local Bishop may have required them in his diocese in some instances.

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The last Gospel, which started as a private devotion following the end of the Mass, was added as a universal part of the Roman rite in 1570 by Pope Pius V.

www.newadvent.org

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Jan 31st 2013 new

You beat me to it Jerry. I was also about to say that the Last Gospel (John 1:14) was much used as an object of special devotion throughout the Middle Ages. It took on more meaning during the Albigensian heresy. Then when the practice of saying it at the altar grew Pius V made it a part of the concluding rite of the Traditional Latin Mass of the Roman Rite in 1570.

And Paul my main point, that I have said more than once is that the Leonine prayers are said after a Low Latin Mass. I've already told you what Missal Booklet I was referring to. You made a lot of tado over being twice wrong.

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Jan 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: And Paul my main point, that I have said more than once is that the Leonine prayers are said
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

And Paul my main point, that I have said more than once is that the Leonine prayers are said after a Low Latin Mass. I've already told you what Missal Booklet I was referring to. You made a lot of tado over being twice wrong.

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The disconnect was the difference between a missal and the Missal (the official Missale Romanum), which contains only the promulgated liturgy.

This is one case where it definitely would have helped some to to seek to understand before being undestood...

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