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What Difference Does It Make that Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Care Why Terrorists Killed Americans in Libya?

Posted By Barry Rubin On January 25, 2013 @ 7:29 am In Uncategorized | 8 Comments

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s remark — “What difference does it make?” — regarding how the motive of the terrorists in the attack that killed four men, including a U.S. ambassador and two former Navy SEALs, isn’t important will always be associated with her.

She added that the only important thing was to punish those responsible. Other than a number of obvious points, two things deserve more consideration.

First: the motive of an attack is always important.

The Obama administration represented the attack as being a response to an anti-Islam video made by an Egyptian-American. If that were to have been true, the implication is that the attack was the fault of America in some way. A change in U.S. behavior — sensitivity, concessions, apologies, different policies, not identifying revolutionary Islamism as a threat and pretending it is a marginal, deviant movement — is thus what’s needed.

Critics tend to see the attack’s motive as being sheer hatred of America, or something along that line. In fact, the motives are somewhat different, and extraordinarily important:

– To promote Islamist revolution by hitting at the United States, thus showing that America is weak and can be defeated as a way to inspire more people to engage in violence and revolutionary activity.

You can call this the strategic motive. As an example: at the time of Iran’s Islamist revolution, many Iranians feared the United States, seeing it in almost superhuman, superpower terms, as eager and able to overthrow any regime in Tehran that was too militant. Thus, the movement should be cautious. Rejecting this idea, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini wanted to prove that America was weak and could not stop his movement from doing anything it wanted — and this is how he portrayed the hostage crisis in the U.S. embassy. A parallel case was that of Osama bin Laden and the September 11th attack.

The message: Islamism is the movement to back, it is winning victories over the infidels, and it can triumph totally.

– To show that terrorism works in injuring the enemy and thus is superior to what others do, including the political maneuvering and mass base-building of the Muslim Brotherhood. This can be called the tactical motive. The message: terrorism is superior to the methods used by other groups, so let’s keep doing it and increasing the number of attacks. In this specific case, the United States easily helped overthrow Qaddafi, but it is helpless against our willpower, will to die, and methods.

– To put the focus on hatred of America as a way to gain more support for Islamism as — to use contemporary rhetoric — hatred of the “other.” This can be called the ideological motive. The message is: those non-Muslim, non-Arab Americans are the true enemy, and any government that is on good terms with them is a traitor.

– To demoralize their relatively more moderate rivals. The message is: give up, don’t help the Americans. If they won’t protect themselves, they certainly won’t save you. That’s why the Libyan government will do little or nothing to help catch those responsible. It is more afraid of the perpetrators than it is of the United States.

These points have been repeatedly stressed by Islamist leaders — Ayman al-Zawahiri comes to mind — in his writings. He and others spoke of how killing fellow Muslims would make the revolutionaries unpopular, but killing Israelis or Americans would win them popular backing.

In this case, a specific motive was to portray the Libyan regime as an American puppet. To overthrow the regime, it is necessary to attack and defeat the United States, making Americans and U.S. influence flee the country. The message is: the Americans cannot save the Libyan government just as they could not protect the shah in Iran or Mubarak in Egypt. Once Syria falls, the Islamists there will pull out Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry quotes to “prove” that President Bashar al-Assad was an American agent and thus everything bad he did can be blamed on Washington.

The Obama administration wants to bury this analysis — it calls attention to the threat of revolutionary Islamism, and in the last case, to the negative aspects of its own Libya policy. Whether or not that initiative of overthrowing Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi was a good idea, the fact remains that such a policy has costs. Whether or not unilateral actions and the use of force is a good idea or not in any specific case, standing aside and doing nothing while Americans were killed will also have its costs.

Whether or not America has made mistakes in its past policies, apologies and concessions will only persuade the Islamists and a large sector of the local population that the United States is weak, can be defeated, and therefore attacks should be escalated.

Aside from the irrelevance of motive, the other point Clinton made was to emphasize that the most important thing was to punish those responsible. While that sounds impressive, virtually nothing has been done to achieve that goal.

In general, of course, the problem is identifying and finding the terrorists, especially if they are located in a country which provides a safe haven to terrorists. The United States never effectively punished, for example, those who attacked the Marine barracks in Beirut in the 1980s. The Libyan case, however, is different. Libya is ruled by a government that is as close to being a U.S. dependent as any Arab government in modern history. There is no sign of serious U.S. pressure on the Libyan regime to do anything. On the contrary, we see that the regime has let suspects go, and that those responsible still operate freely within the country. Again, we are not dealing with terrorists hiding out in places like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, or Lebanon, but rather people going about their daily lives in a country supposedly friendly to the United States.

Of course, it is embarrassing for the Libyan government to cooperate in going after these terrorists. But one would think, especially given Secretary of State Clinton’s remarks, that the priority on getting these individuals would override that political consideration. It doesn’t.

Remember that it is highly likely — U.S. leaders with access to intelligence know for sure — that high-ranking officials in Pakistan were helping Osama bin Laden hide despite receiving billions of dollars in U.S. aid. But Libya is an easier case, since supposedly the United States has a lot of leverage there.

Remember, too, that it is highly likely that U.S. leadership let those brave Americans in Libya die because it didn’t want to rush in with military forces and embarrass an incompetent and unwilling-to-act Libyan government.

Indeed, we know for certain that this is why the consulate did not have proper U.S. security protection. Hard as it is to believe, the security was turned over to Islamists who could be reasonably suspected as being anti-American and linked to terrorists. The individuals guarding the consulate had not even received any serious training.

So Clinton’s show of indifference isn’t just a question of distracting attention or callousness, it is a clear symptom of exactly what is wrong with the Obama administration’s handling of this and other issues.

To paraphrase Obama’s own famous remark: Clinton’s statement is a way of claiming in regard to the current crisis in the Middle East that the Islamists “didn’t build that,” a guilty America did. That kind of thinking will lead to a disaster for U.S. interests and the loss of more American lives.

Jan 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: What Difference Does It Make that Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Care Wh...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:

What Difference Does It Make that Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Care Why Terrorists Killed Americans in Libya?

Posted By Barry Rubin On January 25, 2013 @ 7:29 am In Uncategorized | 8 Comments

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s remark — “What difference does it make?” — regarding how the motive of the terrorists in the attack that killed four men, including a U.S. ambassador and two former Navy SEALs, isn’t important will always be associated with her.

She added that the only important thing was to punish those responsible. Other than a number of obvious points, two things deserve more consideration.

First: the motive of an attack is always important.

The Obama administration represented the attack as being a response to an anti-Islam video made by an Egyptian-American. If that were to have been true, the implication is that the attack was the fault of America in some way. A change in U.S. behavior — sensitivity, concessions, apologies, different policies, not identifying revolutionary Islamism as a threat and pretending it is a marginal, deviant movement — is thus what’s needed.

Critics tend to see the attack’s motive as being sheer hatred of America, or something along that line. In fact, the motives are somewhat different, and extraordinarily important:

– To promote Islamist revolution by hitting at the United States, thus showing that America is weak and can be defeated as a way to inspire more people to engage in violence and revolutionary activity.

You can call this the strategic motive. As an example: at the time of Iran’s Islamist revolution, many Iranians feared the United States, seeing it in almost superhuman, superpower terms, as eager and able to overthrow any regime in Tehran that was too militant. Thus, the movement should be cautious. Rejecting this idea, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini wanted to prove that America was weak and could not stop his movement from doing anything it wanted — and this is how he portrayed the hostage crisis in the U.S. embassy. A parallel case was that of Osama bin Laden and the September 11th attack.

The message: Islamism is the movement to back, it is winning victories over the infidels, and it can triumph totally.

– To show that terrorism works in injuring the enemy and thus is superior to what others do, including the political maneuvering and mass base-building of the Muslim Brotherhood. This can be called the tactical motive. The message: terrorism is superior to the methods used by other groups, so let’s keep doing it and increasing the number of attacks. In this specific case, the United States easily helped overthrow Qaddafi, but it is helpless against our willpower, will to die, and methods.

– To put the focus on hatred of America as a way to gain more support for Islamism as — to use contemporary rhetoric — hatred of the “other.” This can be called the ideological motive. The message is: those non-Muslim, non-Arab Americans are the true enemy, and any government that is on good terms with them is a traitor.

– To demoralize their relatively more moderate rivals. The message is: give up, don’t help the Americans. If they won’t protect themselves, they certainly won’t save you. That’s why the Libyan government will do little or nothing to help catch those responsible. It is more afraid of the perpetrators than it is of the United States.

These points have been repeatedly stressed by Islamist leaders — Ayman al-Zawahiri comes to mind — in his writings. He and others spoke of how killing fellow Muslims would make the revolutionaries unpopular, but killing Israelis or Americans would win them popular backing.

In this case, a specific motive was to portray the Libyan regime as an American puppet. To overthrow the regime, it is necessary to attack and defeat the United States, making Americans and U.S. influence flee the country. The message is: the Americans cannot save the Libyan government just as they could not protect the shah in Iran or Mubarak in Egypt. Once Syria falls, the Islamists there will pull out Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry quotes to “prove” that President Bashar al-Assad was an American agent and thus everything bad he did can be blamed on Washington.

The Obama administration wants to bury this analysis — it calls attention to the threat of revolutionary Islamism, and in the last case, to the negative aspects of its own Libya policy. Whether or not that initiative of overthrowing Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi was a good idea, the fact remains that such a policy has costs. Whether or not unilateral actions and the use of force is a good idea or not in any specific case, standing aside and doing nothing while Americans were killed will also have its costs.

Whether or not America has made mistakes in its past policies, apologies and concessions will only persuade the Islamists and a large sector of the local population that the United States is weak, can be defeated, and therefore attacks should be escalated.

Aside from the irrelevance of motive, the other point Clinton made was to emphasize that the most important thing was to punish those responsible. While that sounds impressive, virtually nothing has been done to achieve that goal.

In general, of course, the problem is identifying and finding the terrorists, especially if they are located in a country which provides a safe haven to terrorists. The United States never effectively punished, for example, those who attacked the Marine barracks in Beirut in the 1980s. The Libyan case, however, is different. Libya is ruled by a government that is as close to being a U.S. dependent as any Arab government in modern history. There is no sign of serious U.S. pressure on the Libyan regime to do anything. On the contrary, we see that the regime has let suspects go, and that those responsible still operate freely within the country. Again, we are not dealing with terrorists hiding out in places like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, or Lebanon, but rather people going about their daily lives in a country supposedly friendly to the United States.

Of course, it is embarrassing for the Libyan government to cooperate in going after these terrorists. But one would think, especially given Secretary of State Clinton’s remarks, that the priority on getting these individuals would override that political consideration. It doesn’t.

Remember that it is highly likely — U.S. leaders with access to intelligence know for sure — that high-ranking officials in Pakistan were helping Osama bin Laden hide despite receiving billions of dollars in U.S. aid. But Libya is an easier case, since supposedly the United States has a lot of leverage there.

Remember, too, that it is highly likely that U.S. leadership let those brave Americans in Libya die because it didn’t want to rush in with military forces and embarrass an incompetent and unwilling-to-act Libyan government.

Indeed, we know for certain that this is why the consulate did not have proper U.S. security protection. Hard as it is to believe, the security was turned over to Islamists who could be reasonably suspected as being anti-American and linked to terrorists. The individuals guarding the consulate had not even received any serious training.

So Clinton’s show of indifference isn’t just a question of distracting attention or callousness, it is a clear symptom of exactly what is wrong with the Obama administration’s handling of this and other issues.

To paraphrase Obama’s own famous remark: Clinton’s statement is a way of claiming in regard to the current crisis in the Middle East that the Islamists “didn’t build that,” a guilty America did. That kind of thinking will lead to a disaster for U.S. interests and the loss of more American lives.

--hide--


After listening to her bullying speech, I heard her say, "What difference does it make how they were killed." Then she went on
to say how we have to figure out how to prevent these attacks in the future.

Well, Hillary, how are you going to prevent the attacks if you don't know what caused them?

Jan 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: What Difference Does It Make that Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Care Wh...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:

What Difference Does It Make that Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Care Why Terrorists Killed Americans in Libya?

Posted By Barry Rubin On January 25, 2013 @ 7:29 am In Uncategorized | 8 Comments

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s remark — “What difference does it make?” — regarding how the motive of the terrorists in the attack that killed four men, including a U.S. ambassador and two former Navy SEALs, isn’t important will always be associated with her.

She added that the only important thing was to punish those responsible. Other than a number of obvious points, two things deserve more consideration.

First: the motive of an attack is always important.

The Obama administration represented the attack as being a response to an anti-Islam video made by an Egyptian-American. If that were to have been true, the implication is that the attack was the fault of America in some way. A change in U.S. behavior — sensitivity, concessions, apologies, different policies, not identifying revolutionary Islamism as a threat and pretending it is a marginal, deviant movement — is thus what’s needed.

Critics tend to see the attack’s motive as being sheer hatred of America, or something along that line. In fact, the motives are somewhat different, and extraordinarily important:

– To promote Islamist revolution by hitting at the United States, thus showing that America is weak and can be defeated as a way to inspire more people to engage in violence and revolutionary activity.

You can call this the strategic motive. As an example: at the time of Iran’s Islamist revolution, many Iranians feared the United States, seeing it in almost superhuman, superpower terms, as eager and able to overthrow any regime in Tehran that was too militant. Thus, the movement should be cautious. Rejecting this idea, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini wanted to prove that America was weak and could not stop his movement from doing anything it wanted — and this is how he portrayed the hostage crisis in the U.S. embassy. A parallel case was that of Osama bin Laden and the September 11th attack.

The message: Islamism is the movement to back, it is winning victories over the infidels, and it can triumph totally.

– To show that terrorism works in injuring the enemy and thus is superior to what others do, including the political maneuvering and mass base-building of the Muslim Brotherhood. This can be called the tactical motive. The message: terrorism is superior to the methods used by other groups, so let’s keep doing it and increasing the number of attacks. In this specific case, the United States easily helped overthrow Qaddafi, but it is helpless against our willpower, will to die, and methods.

– To put the focus on hatred of America as a way to gain more support for Islamism as — to use contemporary rhetoric — hatred of the “other.” This can be called the ideological motive. The message is: those non-Muslim, non-Arab Americans are the true enemy, and any government that is on good terms with them is a traitor.

– To demoralize their relatively more moderate rivals. The message is: give up, don’t help the Americans. If they won’t protect themselves, they certainly won’t save you. That’s why the Libyan government will do little or nothing to help catch those responsible. It is more afraid of the perpetrators than it is of the United States.

These points have been repeatedly stressed by Islamist leaders — Ayman al-Zawahiri comes to mind — in his writings. He and others spoke of how killing fellow Muslims would make the revolutionaries unpopular, but killing Israelis or Americans would win them popular backing.

In this case, a specific motive was to portray the Libyan regime as an American puppet. To overthrow the regime, it is necessary to attack and defeat the United States, making Americans and U.S. influence flee the country. The message is: the Americans cannot save the Libyan government just as they could not protect the shah in Iran or Mubarak in Egypt. Once Syria falls, the Islamists there will pull out Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry quotes to “prove” that President Bashar al-Assad was an American agent and thus everything bad he did can be blamed on Washington.

The Obama administration wants to bury this analysis — it calls attention to the threat of revolutionary Islamism, and in the last case, to the negative aspects of its own Libya policy. Whether or not that initiative of overthrowing Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi was a good idea, the fact remains that such a policy has costs. Whether or not unilateral actions and the use of force is a good idea or not in any specific case, standing aside and doing nothing while Americans were killed will also have its costs.

Whether or not America has made mistakes in its past policies, apologies and concessions will only persuade the Islamists and a large sector of the local population that the United States is weak, can be defeated, and therefore attacks should be escalated.

Aside from the irrelevance of motive, the other point Clinton made was to emphasize that the most important thing was to punish those responsible. While that sounds impressive, virtually nothing has been done to achieve that goal.

In general, of course, the problem is identifying and finding the terrorists, especially if they are located in a country which provides a safe haven to terrorists. The United States never effectively punished, for example, those who attacked the Marine barracks in Beirut in the 1980s. The Libyan case, however, is different. Libya is ruled by a government that is as close to being a U.S. dependent as any Arab government in modern history. There is no sign of serious U.S. pressure on the Libyan regime to do anything. On the contrary, we see that the regime has let suspects go, and that those responsible still operate freely within the country. Again, we are not dealing with terrorists hiding out in places like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, or Lebanon, but rather people going about their daily lives in a country supposedly friendly to the United States.

Of course, it is embarrassing for the Libyan government to cooperate in going after these terrorists. But one would think, especially given Secretary of State Clinton’s remarks, that the priority on getting these individuals would override that political consideration. It doesn’t.

Remember that it is highly likely — U.S. leaders with access to intelligence know for sure — that high-ranking officials in Pakistan were helping Osama bin Laden hide despite receiving billions of dollars in U.S. aid. But Libya is an easier case, since supposedly the United States has a lot of leverage there.

Remember, too, that it is highly likely that U.S. leadership let those brave Americans in Libya die because it didn’t want to rush in with military forces and embarrass an incompetent and unwilling-to-act Libyan government.

Indeed, we know for certain that this is why the consulate did not have proper U.S. security protection. Hard as it is to believe, the security was turned over to Islamists who could be reasonably suspected as being anti-American and linked to terrorists. The individuals guarding the consulate had not even received any serious training.

So Clinton’s show of indifference isn’t just a question of distracting attention or callousness, it is a clear symptom of exactly what is wrong with the Obama administration’s handling of this and other issues.

To paraphrase Obama’s own famous remark: Clinton’s statement is a way of claiming in regard to the current crisis in the Middle East that the Islamists “didn’t build that,” a guilty America did. That kind of thinking will lead to a disaster for U.S. interests and the loss of more American lives.

--hide--
Not to mention that the whole fact that they lied to us for over two weeks was ignored again so they could look better....disgusting. The lied and were caught and no one holds them accountable. Men died and no one holds them accountable? What makes me sick is that McCain who is being patted on the shoulder for his tough questions admits himself that he is friends with Hillary....how is anything ever going to be found out when they put on a show for us and protect each other's backs in private? If this had been a republican administration, they would have been torn apart. Dems they protect. Truthfully, when I think of the men that died (someone's beloved sons), I get ill. I don't buy for a second either that they weren't watching this live...the drones were there....bunch of liars and in this world now everyone gets away with lying.

Jan 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: Not to mention that the whole fact that they lied to us for over two weeks was ignored again so ...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Not to mention that the whole fact that they lied to us for over two weeks was ignored again so they could look better....disgusting. The lied and were caught and no one holds them accountable. Men died and no one holds them accountable? What makes me sick is that McCain who is being patted on the shoulder for his tough questions admits himself that he is friends with Hillary....how is anything ever going to be found out when they put on a show for us and protect each other's backs in private? If this had been a republican administration, they would have been torn apart. Dems they protect. Truthfully, when I think of the men that died (someone's beloved sons), I get ill. I don't buy for a second either that they weren't watching this live...the drones were there....bunch of liars and in this world now everyone gets away with lying.

--hide--


You got that right, Cheryl. Bunch of liars, and now the liars get away with it. One better is on 60 minutes tonight,
Hillary said she is responsible for Benghazi, but not to blame for Benghazi. I did not think the two words meant
different things.

America is starting to make the European Union look like amateurs with their criminal politicians and
bankrupt governments. We have our own murderers with Hillary and her staff, and then bankruptcy
with our governmental spending reaching new heights.

Jan 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: You got that right, Cheryl. Bunch of liars, and now the liars get away with it. One be...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



You got that right, Cheryl. Bunch of liars, and now the liars get away with it. One better is on 60 minutes tonight,
Hillary said she is responsible for Benghazi, but not to blame for Benghazi. I did not think the two words meant
different things.

America is starting to make the European Union look like amateurs with their criminal politicians and
bankrupt governments. We have our own murderers with Hillary and her staff, and then bankruptcy
with our governmental spending reaching new heights.

--hide--
Scummy lawyer talk twisting words to get away with things...responsible but not to blame...HUH????? She and Obama have no business being in command of anything much less our military. Putting the lives of our men in their hands is dead scary when they would let them die to further their own political gains in a second....and that is the bottom line...that is what they did. They worried about politics and winning the election again rather than them.

Jan 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: Scummy lawyer talk twisting words to get away with things...responsible but not to blame...HUH??...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Scummy lawyer talk twisting words to get away with things...responsible but not to blame...HUH????? She and Obama have no business being in command of anything much less our military. Putting the lives of our men in their hands is dead scary when they would let them die to further their own political gains in a second....and that is the bottom line...that is what they did. They worried about politics and winning the election again rather than them.

--hide--


Do you think Hillary is going to run in 2016? I am starting to think "yes."

Jan 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Do you think Hillary is going to run in 2016? I am starting to think "yes."<...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Do you think Hillary is going to run in 2016? I am starting to think "yes."

--hide--
Hi Marianne, that is the big question, isn't it ? Just me, I feel the answer hangs on whether the 0 coalition survives until and through 2014. If it fractures, she will be tempted.

Jan 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Marianne, that is the big question, isn't it ? Just me, I feel the answer hangs on whethe...
(Quote) Bernie-645443 said:

Hi Marianne, that is the big question, isn't it ? Just me, I feel the answer hangs on whether the 0 coalition survives until and through 2014. If it fractures, she will be tempted.

--hide--


Why do you use 2014 as a timeline? You think it will take that long to head up a new campaign, or something else?

Jan 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Why do you use 2014 as a timeline? You think it will take that long to head up a new c...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Why do you use 2014 as a timeline? You think it will take that long to head up a new campaign, or something else?

--hide--
Hi Marianne, the 2014 elections will decide a great many things. Just me, I suspect the 0 coalition won't hold since he is now a lame duck. I also suspect his internals won't be up for a huge battle for control of Congress.


If the 0 coalition holds, Hillary has no chance in 2016.


Obama brought no personal organization with him to the WH. Look how many people in the 0 administration were/are Clinton ( or Bush ) retreads, and careerists. Lots will be bailing after 2014.


Also, if the Libya cover-up comes apart, it will do much more damage than Iran-Contra.


But, the above and a couple bucks will get a cuppa joe. It will be interesting to watch.

Jan 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Marianne, the 2014 elections will decide a great many things. Just me, I suspect the 0 coalit...
(Quote) Bernie-645443 said:

Hi Marianne, the 2014 elections will decide a great many things. Just me, I suspect the 0 coalition won't hold since he is now a lame duck. I also suspect his internals won't be up for a huge battle for control of Congress.


If the 0 coalition holds, Hillary has no chance in 2016.


Obama brought no personal organization with him to the WH. Look how many people in the 0 administration were/are Clinton ( or Bush ) retreads, and careerists. Lots will be bailing after 2014.


Also, if the Libya cover-up comes apart, it will do much more damage than Iran-Contra.


But, the above and a couple bucks will get a cuppa joe. It will be interesting to watch.

--hide--


But Bernie, don't you think the Libya cover-up has unraveled, and no heads have rolled as usual?

Obama brought no personal organization with him because he had experience as a politician or running anything,
yet alone the WH and America.

I think, unfortunately, Hillary is liked, and has a good chance. I also believe, as you say, this goes if the "O"
Admin falls apart. On the 60 minutes interview, Sunday, it was repulsive watching those two. It really did seem
like it was a prelude to her candidacy in 2016.

Pretty soon we will be able to call our country The United Socialist States of America.

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