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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Feb 4th 2013 new

I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties only after it was clear that the documents were to be released. Perhaps this is not true, but that it my understanding. If this is the case, then one can assume that they likely would not have been stripped of their duties if the documents could have been suppressed from release to the public. If they were stripped of their duties only as a result of the release of the documents, then the leadership of the LA arch-diocese really did not learn the full lesson here.


Ed

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties ...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties only after it was clear that the documents were to be released. Perhaps this is not true, but that it my understanding. If this is the case, then one can assume that they likely would not have been stripped of their duties if the documents could have been suppressed from release to the public. If they were stripped of their duties only as a result of the release of the documents, then the leadership of the LA arch-diocese really did not learn the full lesson here.


Ed

--hide--

Your point is well taken.

I would only caution: Archbishop Gomez has only been there for what, a year or so? We need to cut him some slack in so far as his motives are concerned. After all, it could be a case that he was stonewalled by those who jobs were the keeping of the records and were trying to protect both Bishops from potential criminal charges or possibly even themselves. Or it could be that he was conducting his own investigation but the Court order short circuited that effort.

In the end, whether this is soley the result of a Court Order or not, it is a good thing that it is out in the open with all the gory details. With confession will come the ultimate cleansing of this fetid boil from the body of the Church.

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties ...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties only after it was clear that the documents were to be released. Perhaps this is not true, but that it my understanding. If this is the case, then one can assume that they likely would not have been stripped of their duties if the documents could have been suppressed from release to the public. If they were stripped of their duties only as a result of the release of the documents, then the leadership of the LA arch-diocese really did not learn the full lesson here.


Ed

--hide--



Hi Ed, So glad to see you back posting. Hope your eyes continue to do well.


I am concerned, too, about the way this was handled. It seems to me that this may be only the tip of the iceberg and the rest of it may be anywhere, not just in the LA arch-diocese. We seem to have such passive, do nothing bishops, there is no telling what nonsense is going on that we don't know about. It is easy to see the lackadaisical (hope I spelled that right) manner in which parishes are run, I would use the word pastored but that is a rarity.



- Elizabeth

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Your point is well taken. I would only caution: Archbishop Gomez has only been the...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Your point is well taken.

I would only caution: Archbishop Gomez has only been there for what, a year or so? We need to cut him some slack in so far as his motives are concerned. After all, it could be a case that he was stonewalled by those who jobs were the keeping of the records and were trying to protect both Bishops from potential criminal charges or possibly even themselves. Or it could be that he was conducting his own investigation but the Court order short circuited that effort.

In the end, whether this is soley the result of a Court Order or not, it is a good thing that it is out in the open with all the gory details. With confession will come the ultimate cleansing of this fetid boil from the body of the Church.

--hide--



In one of the Catholic sites in which I was reading about this, they also conjectured that the timing of this may have had to do with communications between Archbishop Gomez and the Pope/Vatican - that perhaps the timing of everything was not the Archbishop's call, but the Vatican's call which could certainly be true.

I'm wondering now what they are going to do with Cardinal Mahony. I suspect he will be fairly quickly moved elsewhere as if they leave him living in a normal parish in L.A. this will likely stay in the news, particularly since Mahony has started his own PR team up responding to Archbishop Gomez's actions.

I read Mahony's response online- he is pointing the finger at Archbishop Gomez stating that since he has been in for about a year and a half, why did he wait to release the documents. In other words, Cardinal Mahony is still NOT taking responsibility for what he did (he also blamed his education and training, even though he has a graduate degree in social work, saying he never had any training about dealing with sexual abuse.) My answer to that is good grief!rolling eyes Anyone on a spiritual path would know that you wouldn't transfer a priest who had abused children , nor would you deny that priest counselling in order to prevent the police from finding out (gee, doesn't that sound like obstruction of justice or complicity?), and then do this from 1985 - 2006? REALLY?faint How stupid does Mahony (I just can't continue to use the word Cardinal in relation to him anymore) think the Catholics, and, in fact, the people of America are?boggled

Feb 4th 2013 new

PRESS RELEASE
Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Office of Media Relations
3424 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90010 | phone: (213) 637-7215 | fax: (213) 637-6215 | MediaRelations@la-archdiocese.org
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
FEBRUARY 1, 2013
STATEMENT OF ARCHBISHOP JOSE H. GOMEZ REGARDING PRIESTLY STATUS OF CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY
AND BISHOP THOMAS CURRY

************

Questions from the faithful and some members of the news media indicate that it would be helpful for me to clarify the status of Cardinal Roger Mahony and Bishop Thomas Curry.
Cardinal Mahony, as Archbishop Emeritus, and Bishop Curry, as Auxiliary Bishop, remain bishops in good standing in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, with full rights to celebrate the Holy Sacraments of the Church and to minister to the faithful without restriction.
#######

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: PRESS RELEASEArchdiocese of Los Angeles, Office of Media Relations
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

PRESS RELEASE
Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Office of Media Relations
3424 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90010 | phone: (213) 637-7215 | fax: (213) 637-6215 | MediaRelations@la-archdiocese.org
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
FEBRUARY 1, 2013
STATEMENT OF ARCHBISHOP JOSE H. GOMEZ REGARDING PRIESTLY STATUS OF CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY
AND BISHOP THOMAS CURRY

************

Questions from the faithful and some members of the news media indicate that it would be helpful for me to clarify the status of Cardinal Roger Mahony and Bishop Thomas Curry.
Cardinal Mahony, as Archbishop Emeritus, and Bishop Curry, as Auxiliary Bishop, remain bishops in good standing in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, with full rights to celebrate the Holy Sacraments of the Church and to minister to the faithful without restriction.
#######

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

--hide--


Thanks for posting this, Bernard. I hadn't seen it. And, my reaction is oh no. Really, I guess I can understand them remaining bishops (I'm not sure who can strip the title of bishop from them (I suppose it would be the pope), but "in good standing" - really? And, as for having full rights "to minister to the faithful without restriction" - well, I sincerely hope that situation changes very fast, as these two should not be able to minister to anyone! (Again, I suppose what happens is up to the Pope?)

I don't understand why Mahony isn't in a monastery somewhere (perhaps in upstate New York would be good or Alaska (do they have any monasteries there?) or if the Pope wants to move him out of the U.S., I think the Mongolian desert would be a good place where he likely couldn't harm anyone ( just wishful thinking on my part).

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: I have been reading online a bit about Cardinal Mahoney and what he and Bishop Curry did. I gue...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

I have been reading online a bit about Cardinal Mahoney and what he and Bishop Curry did. I guess they weren't prosecuted because they settled out of court with that $660 million settlement, but honestly these men deserve to go to jail. They were the cause of so many children being sexually abused because they transferred priests around- even out-of-state (in fact warned one Mexican priest who had been in LA for 9 months and abused 30 children to flee the country and he is now a fugitive in Mexico). They would not send these abusive priests to psychological counsellors/therapists because they were afraid the priests would be reported to the police authorities.

I know Archbishop Gomez has relieved Cardinal Mahoney (and I truly do hate to refer to him as Cardinal at this point since he doesn't deserve it) of all public duties and Bishop Curry has resignes as bishop of Santa Barbara I think. But, there has to more done by the Catholic Church at this point. Where is the atonement. Just saying sorry is NOT enough here. And, Cardinal Mahoney is still eligible to vote in the College of Cardinals should Pope Benedict die within the next 2 years (when Mahoney reaches 80 and so will not be able to vote). I think Mahoney should resign immediately from the College of Cardinals - this seems obvious to me. Also, he is residing at a Parish in the LA area living a "normal" life. Shouldn't he be off in a monastery somewhere doing penance. I know he did a lot for immigrants, but that doesn't make up for this huge SIN and the irreparable damage done to hundreds (or is it thousands) of young boys and girls (yes, there were some girls abused too). And, ditto for Bishop Curry, if he can't be prosecuted and jailed, he should also take himself off to a monastery and spend the rest of his life doing penance for what he did. That, and I frankly think all of the victims should be allowed to meet face to face with both men and tell them how they destroyed their lives (maybe then they would realize the extent of their wrongdoing).

I think it is time for the bishops and archbishops and cardinals who did this serious wrong (also Cardinal Law and the others who have a serious level of wrongdoing in willfully allowing priests to continue ministering and, in fact, covered it up to be held to account - by the civil and criminal authorities and also by the Catholic Church. There is no way that our Catholic Church can grow and thrive unless it cleans out it's garbage instead of leaving it out on the street or even hiding it in the basement. It has to either figure out how to dispose of the garbage or recycle what it can. And, no, I am not calling these Bishops/Archbishops/Cardinals garbage, but trying to use an analogy here.

I am so disappointed in this, and hope and pray that the Popes and the Vatican were not complicit. I know they must have known something about these situations. I just hope that they were ignorant of most of it, and unaware of how serious this abuse was for the lives of the victims. It's time for the Pope and the Vatican and the College of Cardinals to clean house! I pray that this will happen now with this extreme, very sad, information coming to the light of day.

--hide--

Exactly Patricia. I also totally agree with Paul when he says that it was wrong when Pope John Paul II appointed Cardinal Law from Boston as Archpriest of the Papal Basilica of Saint Mary Major in Rome. It was like rewarding evil and allowing Law to escape the justice that he deserved. Law was also appointed as the titular Cardinal Priest of Santa Susanna, the American Catholic church in Rome.

Thank you for posting this Marian. I agree with you 100%. And thank you for recognizing that many Trads disliked Mahoney for years. Yes the truth will set us free.

In 1784 elaborate long range plans by Adam Weishaupt were intercepted that included the intentions to infiltrate the Catholic Church for the purpose of subverting and slandering it. The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita is a document, originally published in Italian in the 19th century, purportedly produced by the highest lodge of the Italian Carbonari. It is a Masonic blueprint for the subversion of the Catholic Church. From 1932 to 1948 Bella Dodd was an organizer for the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and from 1944 to '48 sat on the CPUSA's National Council. In 1952, Dodd was received back into the Roman Catholic Church by Bishop Fulton Sheen. In 1953, Dodd testified before the US Senate about widespread Communist Party infiltration of labor unions and other institutions, including the Catholic Church. In 1954, Bella Dodd's book 'School of Darkness' was published, wherein she opined that the Communist Party's structure "was in reality a device to control the 'common man' ".

Quote from the Fatima Network about Bella Dodd;
www.fatimaperspectives.com
"Speaking as a former high ranking official of the American Communist Party, Mrs. Dodd said: "In the 1930s we put eleven hundred men into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within." The idea was for these men to be ordained and progress to positions of influence and authority as Monsignors and Bishops. A dozen years before Vatican II she stated that: "Right now they are in the highest places in the Church" — where they were working to bring about change in order to weaken the Church's effectiveness against Communism. She also said that these changes would be so drastic that "you will not recognise the Catholic Church." End of quote.

Bella Dodd's book 'School of Darkness' can be read online free from this link. It is chilling.
www.yamaguchy.com

Much prayer is needed to bring the Catholic Church back to it's glory. A proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with the bishops would do just that. After reading the above it is not too hard to realize that our Popes have not had the support of their bishops to do a proper consecration. When JP II consecrated the world in 1984 "the Holy Father himself acknowledged in the presence of tens of thousands of witnesses, both during and after the ceremony, that the people of Russia were still “awaiting our consecration and confiding.” The next day these statements were reported in the Pope’s own newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, and the Italian Bishops’ publication, Avvenire."
www.fatima.org

"On board a jet bound for Fatima on May 11, 2010, Pope Benedict XVI answered a question regarding the Third Secret that put him at odds with the ‘official’ Vatican interpretation of the Secret propounded in 2000."
"During Pope Benedict’s latest trip to Fatima [article written on May 19, 2010], however, the Pope did not speak of the Fatima prophecies as already fulfilled, but linked the Third Secret with the present "pedophilia" (homosexual) scandals in the Church, and indicated the prophecy of the Secret includes future events.
Two days later, in his homily at Fatima, as reported by Vatican Information Service, Pope Benedict said, “We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic message is complete.”
He went on to look forward to the 2017 centenary of Fatima, expressing his hope that “the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions” may “hasten the fulfillment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart, to the glory of the Blessed Trinity.”
This last sentence is a clear indication that the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is not yet fulfilled, since the “triumph of the Immaculate Heart”, the conversion of Russia and a “period of peace” granted to the world are the promised result of this consecration – an outcome that has still not occurred since Pope John Paul II’s consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on March 25, 1984.
www.cfnews.org

What ticks me off is that the $660 million settlement for the abuses in the LA diocese and any of the many other settlements are paid for by Sunday contributions from loyal Catholics like you and me plus the sale of beautiful old churches. If the enabling bishops did not try to hide the abusers and turn them in to the law like they should have then the abuses would not have continued and the settlements would have been demanded from the individual abusers or victims rights settlements, not from the Catholic dioceses. Sunday contributions and labor and gifts of land from loyal parishioners built these beautiful old churches that had to be sold to pay the abuse settlements. Rome appointed these enabling bishops, the local parishioners did not. An article that I read about a diocese in Nova Scotia that was forced to sell a beautiful old church to pay for an abuse settlement suggested that seeing the Vatican appointed the enabling bishops then the Vatican should sell off a small portion of it's fine art in Rome to pay off the abuse settlements. The article was basically asking why the local parishioners were being punished when they are innocent. I agree.

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: Exactly Patricia. I also totally agree with Paul when he says that it was wrong when Pope ...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Exactly Patricia. I also totally agree with Paul when he says that it was wrong when Pope John Paul II appointed Cardinal Law from Boston as Archpriest of the Papal Basilica of Saint Mary Major in Rome. It was like rewarding evil and allowing Law to escape the justice that he deserved. Law was also appointed as the titular Cardinal Priest of Santa Susanna, the American Catholic church in Rome.

Thank you for posting this Marian. I agree with you 100%. And thank you for recognizing that many Trads disliked Mahoney for years. Yes the truth will set us free.

In 1784 elaborate long range plans by Adam Weishaupt were intercepted that included the intentions to infiltrate the Catholic Church for the purpose of subverting and slandering it. The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita is a document, originally published in Italian in the 19th century, purportedly produced by the highest lodge of the Italian Carbonari. It is a Masonic blueprint for the subversion of the Catholic Church. From 1932 to 1948 Bella Dodd was an organizer for the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and from 1944 to '48 sat on the CPUSA's National Council. In 1952, Dodd was received back into the Roman Catholic Church by Bishop Fulton Sheen. In 1953, Dodd testified before the US Senate about widespread Communist Party infiltration of labor unions and other institutions, including the Catholic Church. In 1954, Bella Dodd's book 'School of Darkness' was published, wherein she opined that the Communist Party's structure "was in reality a device to control the 'common man' ".

Quote from the Fatima Network about Bella Dodd;
www.fatimaperspectives.com
"Speaking as a former high ranking official of the American Communist Party, Mrs. Dodd said: "In the 1930s we put eleven hundred men into the priesthood in order to destroy the Church from within." The idea was for these men to be ordained and progress to positions of influence and authority as Monsignors and Bishops. A dozen years before Vatican II she stated that: "Right now they are in the highest places in the Church" — where they were working to bring about change in order to weaken the Church's effectiveness against Communism. She also said that these changes would be so drastic that "you will not recognise the Catholic Church." End of quote.

Bella Dodd's book 'School of Darkness' can be read online free from this link. It is chilling.
www.yamaguchy.com

Much prayer is needed to bring the Catholic Church back to it's glory. A proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with the bishops would do just that. After reading the above it is not too hard to realize that our Popes have not had the support of their bishops to do a proper consecration. When JP II consecrated the world in 1984 "the Holy Father himself acknowledged in the presence of tens of thousands of witnesses, both during and after the ceremony, that the people of Russia were still “awaiting our consecration and confiding.” The next day these statements were reported in the Pope’s own newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, and the Italian Bishops’ publication, Avvenire."
www.fatima.org

"On board a jet bound for Fatima on May 11, 2010, Pope Benedict XVI answered a question regarding the Third Secret that put him at odds with the ‘official’ Vatican interpretation of the Secret propounded in 2000."
"During Pope Benedict’s latest trip to Fatima [article written on May 19, 2010], however, the Pope did not speak of the Fatima prophecies as already fulfilled, but linked the Third Secret with the present "pedophilia" (homosexual) scandals in the Church, and indicated the prophecy of the Secret includes future events.
Two days later, in his homily at Fatima, as reported by Vatican Information Service, Pope Benedict said, “We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic message is complete.”
He went on to look forward to the 2017 centenary of Fatima, expressing his hope that “the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions” may “hasten the fulfillment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart, to the glory of the Blessed Trinity.”
This last sentence is a clear indication that the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is not yet fulfilled, since the “triumph of the Immaculate Heart”, the conversion of Russia and a “period of peace” granted to the world are the promised result of this consecration – an outcome that has still not occurred since Pope John Paul II’s consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on March 25, 1984.
www.cfnews.org

What ticks me off is that the $660 million settlement for the abuses in the LA diocese and any of the many other settlements are paid for by Sunday contributions from loyal Catholics like you and me plus the sale of beautiful old churches. If the enabling bishops did not try to hide the abusers and turn them in to the law like they should have then the abuses would not have continued and the settlements would have been demanded from the individual abusers or victims rights settlements, not from the Catholic dioceses. Sunday contributions and labor and gifts of land from loyal parishioners built these beautiful old churches that had to be sold to pay the abuse settlements. Rome appointed these enabling bishops, the local parishioners did not. An article that I read about a diocese in Nova Scotia that was forced to sell a beautiful old church to pay for an abuse settlement suggested that seeing the Vatican appointed the enabling bishops then the Vatican should sell off a small portion of it's fine art in Rome to pay off the abuse settlements. The article was basically asking why the local parishioners were being punished when they are innocent. I agree.

--hide--

Mike, can't argue with most oif your post, especially when you agree with what I said biggrin

But I do have to disagree with your contention that Russia has yet to be Consecrated to Mary's Immaculate Heart as requested by Our Lady at Fatima. PJII did so with over 2200 Bishops joining him in the Consecration. And Sister Lucy herself, before her death, declared that it had been done and accepted by Heaven.

Both Pope JP II and Pope Benedict have stated that all then secrets of Fatima have been revealed. Whether all of the Promises have come to pass is a separate issue.

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said: Thank you for posting this, Marian. The real amazing thing about what is going on...
(Quote) Elizabeth-462557 said:




Thank you for posting this, Marian. The real amazing thing about what is going on is that a court had to order this be done. Can you imagine other issues that the Church has failed to address properly and because there is no Court ordering the Church to do the right thing, it is not being done. One of the things I am thinking about is just shepherding their flock, ministering to those in need, teaching the faith, practicing humility...the list could go on and on. I saw a priest to day with some pretty sharp cowboy boots at mass. Can you imaging John Paul II wearing sharp cowboy boots. I remember when we had humble, hard working pastors who had holes in there shoes and when you would give them money to buy new ones they would find someone who needed the money more. It is a sad time for the Catholic church. But at least on this issue something is going to be forced to be done. Imagine how much money, Church money, was spent holding off the turn over of these documents. Will the real Catholic Church please stand up and be counted.


Sorry for my rant.

--hide--
I fully concur with your rant Elizabeth. It is sickening how the Church has consistently tried to minimize and sidestep this issue. Instead of trying to stop the bleeding, they should be performing a major amputation to finally rid itself of this perverse cancer!

Feb 4th 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties ...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

I am concerned that it appears the Cardinal Mahoney and Bishop Curry were stripped of duties only after it was clear that the documents were to be released. Perhaps this is not true, but that it my understanding. If this is the case, then one can assume that they likely would not have been stripped of their duties if the documents could have been suppressed from release to the public. If they were stripped of their duties only as a result of the release of the documents, then the leadership of the LA arch-diocese really did not learn the full lesson here.


Ed

--hide--


I agree. I hope he is doing some soul searching and much much more.

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