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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Feb 7th 2013 new

Correction. It should read May 2011, not May 2010.

Consecration Now Conference; May 2011
www.consecrationnow.com

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: Correction. It should read May 2011, not May 2010. Consecration Now Conference; May 2011...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Correction. It should read May 2011, not May 2010.

Consecration Now Conference; May 2011
www.consecrationnow.com

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The interesting thing one finds by going to all of your suggested web sites is that they all talk about Vatican conspiracies. Either that the Vatican has purposely suppressed the Third secret, or the Vatican wrote the St.Lucia's letter, or Cardinal Ratzinger did this or Cardinal so and so did or said that. Many praising the defrocked priest Fr. Guner and claiming him as a valid voice to be listened to.

Conspiracies exist. But whenever someone raises as a reason for their position that a conspiracy exits to suppress the truth of whatever they are saying, everyone's BS antenna should be raised.

Look at the implcations inherent in the claims of conspiracy on your suggested web sites. In the end, their claim to truth relies on the ultimate conspiracy; i.e. there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy.

I will point out again, that if that claim is true that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church. If the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church, then Christ lied and if Christ lied He could not be who He claimed He was. And if He is not what He claimed to be, all Christianity is a waste of time and one big conspiracy begun by a carpenter, 11 uneducated fishermen and a despised tax collector. Of course we can't forget the drunken tent maker who claims to have been struck down on the road to Damascus and converted by Christ himself.

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The interesting thing one finds by going to all of your suggested web sites is that they ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The interesting thing one finds by going to all of your suggested web sites is that they all talk about Vatican conspiracies. Either that the Vatican has purposely suppressed the Third secret, or the Vatican wrote the St.Lucia's letter, or Cardinal Ratzinger did this or Cardinal so and so did or said that. Many praising the defrocked priest Fr. Guner and claiming him as a valid voice to be listened to.

Conspiracies exist. But whenever someone raises as a reason for their position that a conspiracy exits to suppress the truth of whatever they are saying, everyone's BS antenna should be raised.

Look at the implcations inherent in the claims of conspiracy on your suggested web sites. In the end, their claim to truth relies on the ultimate conspiracy; i.e. there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy.

I will point out again, that if that claim is true that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church. If the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church, then Christ lied and if Christ lied He could not be who He claimed He was. And if He is not what He claimed to be, all Christianity is a waste of time and one big conspiracy begun by a carpenter, 11 uneducated fishermen and a despised tax collector. Of course we can't forget the drunken tent maker who claims to have been struck down on the road to Damascus and converted by Christ himself.

--hide--


Why was this Fr. Gruner (or is it Guner) defrocked? I was not aware of this.

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The interesting thing one finds by going to all of your suggested web sites is that they ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The interesting thing one finds by going to all of your suggested web sites is that they all talk about Vatican conspiracies. Either that the Vatican has purposely suppressed the Third secret, or the Vatican wrote the St.Lucia's letter, or Cardinal Ratzinger did this or Cardinal so and so did or said that. Many praising the defrocked priest Fr. Guner and claiming him as a valid voice to be listened to.

Conspiracies exist. But whenever someone raises as a reason for their position that a conspiracy exits to suppress the truth of whatever they are saying, everyone's BS antenna should be raised.

Look at the implcations inherent in the claims of conspiracy on your suggested web sites. In the end, their claim to truth relies on the ultimate conspiracy; i.e. there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy.

I will point out again, that if that claim is true that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church. If the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church, then Christ lied and if Christ lied He could not be who He claimed He was. And if He is not what He claimed to be, all Christianity is a waste of time and one big conspiracy begun by a carpenter, 11 uneducated fishermen and a despised tax collector. Of course we can't forget the drunken tent maker who claims to have been struck down on the road to Damascus and converted by Christ himself.

--hide--

That is total rubbish Paul. I have not posted one web site that has claimed, in your own words "there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy." Not one. That is nothing but a lie Paul. Go back to read every web site that I have posted in CM and you will not find one web site that says what you claim. I am not a sedevacantist, I pray for the Pope every day. Father Gruner is not a sedevacantist, he often in his publications tells his readers to pray for the Pope. I didn't even know what sedevacantism was until I read an article about it in the Fatima Crusader, the Fatima Center's quarterly publication. I resent what you just said in your last post Paul because it is nothing but lies.

Obviously you did not look at any of the web sites that I posted on the previous page or you would not be saying what you did. Besides posting links to the Fatima Conferences, that show the Archbishops and Bishops that spoke at the conferences on the previous page I tried to verify what you were saying, but found the complete opposite. So it is still up to you Paul to verify that the Catholic Church is flourishing in Russia. Again please try to prove me wrong. I hope you do. But try to post with some honesty the next time.

What I neglected to post on the previous page is that on Oct 23, 2012 Father Gruner and Attorney Christopher Ferrara spoke at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France to try to get a bill past to petition the Pope to do the Consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart as the only means for Peace. Member of Parliament (MEP) Mario Borghezio spearheaded the motion for the declaration concerning the Consecration of Russia. Mr. Borghezio attended the Rome conference in May 2012 and he was impressed by the imperative of Our Lady for the Consecration of Russia as the only means that will bring about world peace. Mr. Borghezio discussed with Father Gruner the possibility of putting forward a Motion to the European Parliament. Mr. Borghezio and MEP Lorenzo Fontana formally presented the proposal to the European Parliament. The Motion needs about 350 Members of the European Parliament to vote in its favor – or to sign it so that it becomes an official declaration of the EU Parliament. It is estimated by friends inside the EU Parliament that 50 votes are in favor of it so far. You can read more about it here.
www.fatimacrusader.com

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Why was this Fr. Gruner (or is it Guner) defrocked? I was not aware of this.
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Why was this Fr. Gruner (or is it Guner) defrocked? I was not aware of this.

--hide--

Fr. Gruner is incardinated as a priest in good standing in the Archdiocese of Hyderabad.

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: That is total rubbish Paul. I have not posted one web site that has claimed, in your own w...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

That is total rubbish Paul. I have not posted one web site that has claimed, in your own words "there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy." Not one. That is nothing but a lie Paul. Go back to read every web site that I have posted in CM and you will not find one web site that says what you claim. I am not a sedevacantist, I pray for the Pope every day. Father Gruner is not a sedevacantist, he often in his publications tells his readers to pray for the Pope. I didn't even know what sedevacantism was until I read an article about it in the Fatima Crusader, the Fatima Center's quarterly publication. I resent what you just said in your last post Paul because it is nothing but lies.

Obviously you did not look at any of the web sites that I posted on the previous page or you would not be saying what you did. Besides posting links to the Fatima Conferences, that show the Archbishops and Bishops that spoke at the conferences on the previous page I tried to verify what you were saying, but found the complete opposite. So it is still up to you Paul to verify that the Catholic Church is flourishing in Russia. Again please try to prove me wrong. I hope you do. But try to post with some honesty the next time.

What I neglected to post on the previous page is that on Oct 23, 2012 Father Gruner and Attorney Christopher Ferrara spoke at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France to try to get a bill past to petition the Pope to do the Consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart as the only means for Peace. Member of Parliament (MEP) Mario Borghezio spearheaded the motion for the declaration concerning the Consecration of Russia. Mr. Borghezio attended the Rome conference in May 2012 and he was impressed by the imperative of Our Lady for the Consecration of Russia as the only means that will bring about world peace. Mr. Borghezio discussed with Father Gruner the possibility of putting forward a Motion to the European Parliament. Mr. Borghezio and MEP Lorenzo Fontana formally presented the proposal to the European Parliament. The Motion needs about 350 Members of the European Parliament to vote in its favor – or to sign it so that it becomes an official declaration of the EU Parliament. It is estimated by friends inside the EU Parliament that 50 votes are in favor of it so far. You can read more about it here.
www.fatimacrusader.com

--hide--

You need to reread what I said. I did not say that the web sites claimed that. I did say the implication of what they did say was that.

A very big difference.

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: Fr. Gruner is incardinated as a priest in good standing in the Archdiocese of Hyderabad.
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

Fr. Gruner is incardinated as a priest in good standing in the Archdiocese of Hyderabad.

--hide--

But the Vatican Congregation resposible for the clergy lists him as and insists Fr. Gruner is a defrocked priest. Or in the delicate words so often used, not a priest in good standing.

I believe the Vatican which has ultimate responsibity.

Feb 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Mike-41230 said: That is total rubbish Paul. I have not posted one web site that has claimed, in your own w...
(Quote) Mike-41230 said:

That is total rubbish Paul. I have not posted one web site that has claimed, in your own words "there has been no valid Pope in the Church since Pius XII and that all those claiming the Papacy since have promoted heresy." Not one. That is nothing but a lie Paul. Go back to read every web site that I have posted in CM and you will not find one web site that says what you claim. I am not a sedevacantist, I pray for the Pope every day. Father Gruner is not a sedevacantist, he often in his publications tells his readers to pray for the Pope. I didn't even know what sedevacantism was until I read an article about it in the Fatima Crusader, the Fatima Center's quarterly publication. I resent what you just said in your last post Paul because it is nothing but lies.

Obviously you did not look at any of the web sites that I posted on the previous page or you would not be saying what you did. Besides posting links to the Fatima Conferences, that show the Archbishops and Bishops that spoke at the conferences on the previous page I tried to verify what you were saying, but found the complete opposite. So it is still up to you Paul to verify that the Catholic Church is flourishing in Russia. Again please try to prove me wrong. I hope you do. But try to post with some honesty the next time.

What I neglected to post on the previous page is that on Oct 23, 2012 Father Gruner and Attorney Christopher Ferrara spoke at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France to try to get a bill past to petition the Pope to do the Consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart as the only means for Peace. Member of Parliament (MEP) Mario Borghezio spearheaded the motion for the declaration concerning the Consecration of Russia. Mr. Borghezio attended the Rome conference in May 2012 and he was impressed by the imperative of Our Lady for the Consecration of Russia as the only means that will bring about world peace. Mr. Borghezio discussed with Father Gruner the possibility of putting forward a Motion to the European Parliament. Mr. Borghezio and MEP Lorenzo Fontana formally presented the proposal to the European Parliament. The Motion needs about 350 Members of the European Parliament to vote in its favor – or to sign it so that it becomes an official declaration of the EU Parliament. It is estimated by friends inside the EU Parliament that 50 votes are in favor of it so far. You can read more about it here.
www.fatimacrusader.com

--hide--

Lets see some easy statistics to confirm.

IN 1991 there were a mere six Catholic six priests in Russia. Just 3 years later there were 58.. In 1991 Thomas Aquinas College was opened in Moscow and 3 years later it had 300 students. Moscow also has a Catholic radio station.. Remarkable data considering the fact that before the revolution Catholics represented a very small percentage of ther Russian population. After the revolution all its churches were confiscated every bishop was killed and virtually all priests disappeared. And all this after 70 years of atheist propaganda and persecution of the Church and the faithful.

In 2012 there were an estimated 1,300,000 Catholics and over 400 priests.

In the Ukraine there were 220 seminarians in 2006 where none at all existed before the break up of the USSR.

No, only in the some perverse universe would statistics like that not speak of a flourishing church.

But Our Lady promised that Russia would be magivcally converted overnight, so I guess those statistics mean failure.

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