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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

02/23/2013 new
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: No not avoiding the question. I have come home to find people I do not know in my house. One particul...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

No not avoiding the question. I have come home to find people I do not know in my house. One particular case would be one of the five boys who stayed with us in high school. I came home to find none of my children there, but this boy coming out of the kitchen with a bowl of cereal. It took about an hour to get ahold of my son, to find out he had told him to wait there until my husband and I got home. I would if I felt threatened yes go to the police, but the most probable scenario would be to try and ascertain which of my family members deposited them there. After finding out none had I would be a little more wary, and call for some backup whether it be the police or a neighbor or a family member. But, I would follow through with trying to attend to the person's needs.

I have no intention of telling you that you are misusing the scripture.

I agree that there need to be changes in the immigration process and that includes legal as well as illegal means. But, I find it exceptionally distressing when we lose sight of the fact that legal or illegal we are talking about human beings. I also find it distressing to hear the same rhetoric being bantered around generation after generation with the only change being the ethnicity of the person being relegated to a lesser status. I also through my own experience find the rhetoric to be inaccurate and designed to specifically create an us and them dichotomy, which at its very core destroys charity.

One can disagree with another's behaviors, one can administer just punishment for breaking the rules and still maintain a charitable heart.

--hide--
02/23/2013 new

Yes, I believe it is supported by the leaders in my Diocese. The majority of these people are Hispanic Catholics who are non-citizens. They are given sub-par wages by mostly white native-born employers who see them as cheap labor.

This exploitation is accepted and supported by business leaders and the government in low-skill carpentry, landscaping, painting, and meat packing jobs. I see their exploitation by business owners a terribly grave offense, so does God. Exodus 22:21, Zechariah 7:10, Proverbs 22:22.

What we need to do in this country is crack down on business employers who are paying less then minimum wage or are using immigration as a tactic to depress wages, and not abuse the already exploited.

The depression of wages due to exploitation of cheap labor has resulted in many potential fathers turning away from marriage, or using contraception to prevent children from being conceived as they know they do not have the wages to support a wife and children in a decent standard of living.

02/24/2013 new

(Quote) Raphael-888821 said: Yes, I believe it is supported by the leaders in my Diocese. The majority of these people are H...
(Quote) Raphael-888821 said:

Yes, I believe it is supported by the leaders in my Diocese. The majority of these people are Hispanic Catholics who are non-citizens. They are given sub-par wages by mostly white native-born employers who see them as cheap labor.

This exploitation is accepted and supported by business leaders and the government in low-skill carpentry, landscaping, painting, and meat packing jobs. I see their exploitation by business owners a terribly grave offense, so does God. Exodus 22:21, Zechariah 7:10, Proverbs 22:22.

What we need to do in this country is crack down on business employers who are paying less then minimum wage or are using immigration as a tactic to depress wages, and not abuse the already exploited.

The depression of wages due to exploitation of cheap labor has resulted in many potential fathers turning away from marriage, or using contraception to prevent children from being conceived as they know they do not have the wages to support a wife and children in a decent standard of living.

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Raphael: I think that is why illegal immigration is allowed in this country--for owners of big factories to get cheap
labor. These factories are constantly being raided but they still reopen. Something should be done about it. I
bet they pay the people who enforce the law, under the table, to look away.

Owners of companies should be held accountable to check the status of workers and get in trouble if the status
is bogus and they hire them. That would begin to reverse the problem.

Good point, Raphael.

02/25/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: And if you would put away your bleeding heart and face reality you will see that a law br...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

And if you would put away your bleeding heart and face reality you will see that a law breaker is still a law breaker.

Do many of them come from horrible situations. Of course they do. But it is their responsibility to try to right the problems in their country not to break our laws.

If they want to come here, follow the law. Simple!

Maybe if we enforced our laws they would get fed up enough with their goverenments to do something about it. And if they did and had a personal investment in their country, they would find they had no need to come here.

--hide--
Hi Paul, or they could self - legalize by asking to become the 51st through 57th states....

02/25/2013 new

(Quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Paul, or they could self - legalize by asking to become the 51st through 57th states.... ...
(Quote) Bernie-645443 said:

Hi Paul, or they could self - legalize by asking to become the 51st through 57th states....

--hide--

That would be 52nd through 58the states. If that were to happen, Puerto Rico deserves to come in before them.

02/25/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: That would be 52nd through 58the states. If that were to happen, Puerto Rico deserves to ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

That would be 52nd through 58the states. If that were to happen, Puerto Rico deserves to come in before them.

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Hi Paul, if you use the "merits due to past performance" side of deserve, perhaps.


If you use the "need, scope, and cui bono " side of deserve, applied to both parties, perhaps not. But a good point, and one that is raised annually.

02/27/2013 new

(Quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Paul, or they could self - legalize by asking to become the 51st through 57th states.... ...
(Quote) Bernie-645443 said:

Hi Paul, or they could self - legalize by asking to become the 51st through 57th states....

--hide--


57 States--We will need a new flag. OMG United States Flag weeping

03/09/2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Yes, the church is in favor of illegal immigration. The church should not be involved ...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Yes, the church is in favor of illegal immigration. The church should not be involved in politics.

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Marianne I think that you should recall that Mary and Joseph were forced to emigrate in a hurry to escape persecution and probable murder of their child. I am so glad that Egyptians at that time did not have your ideas on letting people in or the messianic prophesy may have not come to pass.Christians have a history of immigration. YOUR family probably immigrated here where the standards of immigration were no doubt significantly less restrictive. I bet you are grateful for that.

I think that your ideas reflect a narrowmindedness that as as Catholics and or Christians we should avoid. Much of the fraud that is unfortunately perpetrated are done by people trying desperately to better their situation and or escape dangerous situations.Most of these people could become productive members of society if given the chance. Of course there are criminals among them but that is the minority and I am sure that AMERICAN society cannot claim to be free of criminal segments. I will also let you know that I am an immigrant and though here legally I am let wondering what you TRULY think of me. I will also add that not only am I a productive member of society, I also make decisions that allow many successful Americans live better lives. Try to broaden your scope and view things with the empathy and vision that Christ calls us to. That is what the Church is calling you to and rightly so.

To end: I am very surprised that you think that you have the right to tell the Church what they should and should not get involved in. I for one want guidance from the Church on every aspect of my life including politics as I am a flawed individual and need guidance. Maybe those who think that they ae without flaws and or do not need guidance are most in need of it.

Apologies if this sounds harsh but I read these posts and was frankly appalled. I have rarely ventured into this room because of it reputation and am beginning to see now that some of it is well deserved. Lots of ugliness going on in here. Just sitting here shaking my head.

03/10/2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: Marianne I think that you should recall that Mary and Joseph were forced to emigrate in ...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

Marianne I think that you should recall that Mary and Joseph were forced to emigrate in a hurry to escape persecution and probable murder of their child. I am so glad that Egyptians at that time did not have your ideas on letting people in or the messianic prophesy may have not come to pass.Christians have a history of immigration. YOUR family probably immigrated here where the standards of immigration were no doubt significantly less restrictive. I bet you are grateful for that.

I think that your ideas reflect a narrowmindedness that as as Catholics and or Christians we should avoid. Much of the fraud that is unfortunately perpetrated are done by people trying desperately to better their situation and or escape dangerous situations.Most of these people could become productive members of society if given the chance. Of course there are criminals among them but that is the minority and I am sure that AMERICAN society cannot claim to be free of criminal segments. I will also let you know that I am an immigrant and though here legally I am let wondering what you TRULY think of me. I will also add that not only am I a productive member of society, I also make decisions that allow many successful Americans live better lives. Try to broaden your scope and view things with the empathy and vision that Christ calls us to. That is what the Church is calling you to and rightly so.

To end: I am very surprised that you think that you have the right to tell the Church what they should and should not get involved in. I for one want guidance from the Church on every aspect of my life including politics as I am a flawed individual and need guidance. Maybe those who think that they ae without flaws and or do not need guidance are most in need of it.

Apologies if this sounds harsh but I read these posts and was frankly appalled. I have rarely ventured into this room because of it reputation and am beginning to see now that some of it is well deserved. Lots of ugliness going on in here. Just sitting here shaking my head.

--hide--



"Appalled and 'frankly' appalled!" That is a good start. You have a long way to go though to really know how Americans
feel about their great and beloved country. This is a country that was formed by individuals who put themselves in great
peril to oppose their colonizers and form a nation. They did not find a place that was doing well and break in. And after
they fought the American Revolution, they sat down and wrote laws and guidelines to sustain their new homeland.
The new laws were based on the laws of England, but reworked to be fair and just for all who became a citizen in
good standing.

Yes, laws and guidelines. That is what has sustained America. Unfortunately, as of late, we are bombarded by those
who do not feel the necessity to respect laws. This is a reprehensible situation and one that is putting America in a
tenuous and vulnerable position. It cannot survive without laws that are obeyed. And it cannot survive in a
bankrupt financial situation.

I care about America. My parents, grandparents, and great grandparents cared about America. If you think those of
us in this room have a reputation (as you stated), you better believe it. And if you think this is ugly (as you stated),
it shows where you stand.

The Church has no allegiance to America. The Church doesn't worry about America. I do and many other CMers
that I know, do. Left-winged rheteric will not take away the feelings we have for our country. Good try, though.

No apologies here.







03/10/2013 new

There is a world of difference between coming here legally and sneaking in through the desert under the darkness of night. It's the same difference as buying a car and stealing a car. Just because you are in need of transportation doesn't give you the right to break the law and steal someone's car (or even to steal off the lot). How is it then that it's ok to break the law and come to this country illegally? I really would like for someone who believes in illegal immigration to rebut this point for me (based on logic, not emotions).

Another thing too, as I believe someone already mentioned: illigal immigrants are mainly here from Mexico, because Mexico happens to border America and they have an easier way in. This is not fair to people in all the other countries (some of whom are more desperate to leave than Mexicans). If we as a country are going to increase the number of (legal) immigrants allowed to enter each year, the decision on who is in most need should not depend on the geographical location of their country.

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