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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Chelsea if you read Church history you would find hundreds of examples of Catholicism ...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Chelsea if you read Church history you would find hundreds of examples of Catholicism being imposed on other religions by Monarchs and vice versa.

Queen Isabella of Castile, King Ferdinand of Aragon, the monarchies of Portugal, the Holy Roman States, Russia.St Bartholemews Day Massacre in France against the Hugenuots, the conversion of Moslems and Orthodox in the Balkans in 1940, 1994 and today the forcible conversion of Christians to Moslems in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Western Africa by the Taliban, when and where they are in control.

In the Medievil Church the Jews were given 3 choices throughout Chrismdom all were Monarchies, convert, stay and face crippling fines or die a heretic death (that being burnt alive). You cant swing a chasible in history without hitting forced conversion, pograms or massacres in the name of the church by those doing Gods work.

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I see what you've written, but I don't believe it conforms to reality in regard to the actions of Catholic Monarchs. If you can provide credible evidence backing your claim, however, I'm all ears (so to speak).

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Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Whe...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Where is your trust? This is appalling. Consider the enormity of your false accusations please. Thoughts like this keep you from God but fool you into thinking you're doing God's work.

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Hey Dave chill bud. JPII was the Pope yes but he was just a man and we Catholics can "attack" the Pope on secular or any issue not declared infallible, doctrine or a tenant of the Church, I personally don't like JPII but I respect the fact he was leading by example, showing respect and reverence to a Holy Book of our Brothers in the Moslem world.

But the Pope is just a Priest in white robes NOT GOD He is the only Diety that I have to have Faith in. I believe the Holy Spirit moves the Pope, moved the Pope to kiss the Qu'ran as a sign of tollerance, equality and brotherliness

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Feb 13th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I see what you've written, but I don't believe it conforms to reality in regard...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I see what you've written, but I don't believe it conforms to reality in regard to the actions of Catholic Monarchs. If you can provide credible evidence backing your claim, however, I'm all ears (so to speak).

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Look up any history book, and then look up The Wealth of Nations by Keanes, and the Magna Carta, even your own Constitution, then move on to Gibbons Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and St Augustian the Holy City (which out lines the role of Monarchs in Gods Design), Also the works of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, and the St Thomas More (a layer and expert on the Role of Church and State/Monarchies.

Das Kapital by Karl Marx also outlines the role of Monarchs and Government and the People. The Life and Times of Henry VIII, and the History of the Russian Emoire (especially the volumes on Ivan IV (the Terrible), and Cathern the Great.

The works of the Emperor Chin also outlines the role of Monarchs and society.

most of these can be downloaded in full for free from

http://www.guttenburg.org

the rest you can find at

http://www.vatican.va

Its the best I can do as I cant stay here all day and give 25 years of history lectures and learning take too long so you will have to do your own diging.

Oh the Abdication Crisis is covered by the Complete works of Winston Churchil, and at the Imperial Museum

http://www.imperialmuseum.govt.uk

and at the British Government website

http://www.parliament.govt.uk

http://www.queen.govt.uk

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Feb 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Look up any history book, and then look up The Wealth of Nations by Keanes, and the Ma...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Look up any history book, and then look up The Wealth of Nations by Keanes, and the Magna Carta, even your own Constitution, then move on to Gibbons Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and St Augustian the Holy City (which out lines the role of Monarchs in Gods Design), Also the works of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, and the St Thomas More (a layer and expert on the Role of Church and State/Monarchies.

Das Kapital by Karl Marx also outlines the role of Monarchs and Government and the People. The Life and Times of Henry VIII, and the History of the Russian Emoire (especially the volumes on Ivan IV (the Terrible), and Cathern the Great.

The works of the Emperor Chin also outlines the role of Monarchs and society.

most of these can be downloaded in full for free from

http://www.guttenburg.org

the rest you can find at

http://www.vatican.va

Its the best I can do as I cant stay here all day and give 25 years of history lectures and learning take too long so you will have to do your own diging.

Oh the Abdication Crisis is covered by the Complete works of Winston Churchil, and at the Imperial Museum

http://www.imperialmuseum.govt.uk

and at the British Government website

http://www.parliament.govt.uk

http://www.queen.govt.uk

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You did offer a lot, but I would be happy with one credible and verifiable example that a Catholic Monarch had a policy of forced conversion within his sovereign territory.

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Feb 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Jane-942076 said: Before trashing all non-Catholics it's worthwhile remembering that Christ was a practicing Jew...
(Quote) Jane-942076 said:

Before trashing all non-Catholics it's worthwhile remembering that Christ was a practicing Jew who said that peace is found within.

What is wrong with ecumenical services? There are many formerly practicing Catholics who have left the church because of the conservative movement as started w/ our current pope. Many others have been deeply wounded by his refusal to hold accountable the priests who hurt the children in their care. Perhaps rather than sitting in judgement we could pray for peace and trust that God, the Holy Spirit, Christ and the Blessed Mother are in charge, not ourselves.

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Many others have been deeply wounded by his refusal to hold accountable the priests who hurt the children in their care.


If you are going put this on Pope Benedict, you need to throw JPII in there as well. I get that everyone loves him, but he doesn't deserve a pass on this.

There are many formerly practicing Catholics who have left the church because of the conservative movement as started w/ our current pope.


I became Catholic because of Pope Benedict. wink

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Feb 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: You did offer a lot, but I would be happy with one credible and verifiable example tha...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

You did offer a lot, but I would be happy with one credible and verifiable example that a Catholic Monarch had a policy of forced conversion within his sovereign territory.

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Queen Isabella of Castile and her husband King Ferdinand of Aragon (Thats Spain) 1482.

www.newadvent.org

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Feb 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Steve-650539 said: Many others have been deeply wounded by his refusal to hold accountable the ...
(Quote) Steve-650539 said:


Many others have been deeply wounded by his refusal to hold accountable the priests who hurt the children in their care.


If you are going put this on Pope Benedict, you need to throw JPII in there as well. I get that everyone loves him, but he doesn't deserve a pass on this.

There are many formerly practicing Catholics who have left the church because of the conservative movement as started w/ our current pope.


I became Catholic because of Pope Benedict.

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The abuse start ong before either JPII or Benedict XVI, it goes back to the workhouses of the late 1870s. So no one Pope can be blamed, the apathy of the Church and the gulibility of the Laity of the various Parish congregations also bear a huge responsibility

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Feb 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: The abuse start ong before either JPII or Benedict XVI, it goes back to the workhouses...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

The abuse start ong before either JPII or Benedict XVI, it goes back to the workhouses of the late 1870s. So no one Pope can be blamed, the apathy of the Church and the gulibility of the Laity of the various Parish congregations also bear a huge responsibility

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yes the abuse started before JPII--but I think putting blame on the gullibity of the laity is an overreach. JPII --in some peoples minds---had the power to do something about these evil priests and the weakling bishops(im being too kind) who shuffled them off to other parishes to molest again. I can see where these people are coming from--although I am just not sure about my opinion. I know JPII suffered a lot--and that may have been his way of dealing w the problem. He may be a true saint.....I just dont know--or maybe he was asleep at the wheel while these pedos operated/came into the church. One pope CAN be blamed for the actions he took under his watch.Would that pope bear all the responsibility? Of course not.

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Feb 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-112790 said: yes the abuse started before JPII--but I think putting blame on the gullibity of the laity ...
(Quote) Tom-112790 said:



yes the abuse started before JPII--but I think putting blame on the gullibity of the laity is an overreach. JPII --in some peoples minds---had the power to do something about these evil priests and the weakling bishops(im being too kind) who shuffled them off to other parishes to molest again. I can see where these people are coming from--although I am just not sure about my opinion. I know JPII suffered a lot--and that may have been his way of dealing w the problem. He may be a true saint.....I just dont know--or maybe he was asleep at the wheel while these pedos operated/came into the church. One pope CAN be blamed for the actions he took under his watch.Would that pope bear all the responsibility? Of course not.

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You are right the Cgurch Administration failed us all especially the victimns if the laity werent so dogmatically believing that the Priest was above the suns of Man then it could have been stopped earlier. I know from my days at school that some things about the Priest and Nuns were never told. You shut up and took the abuse, physical, mental and/or sexual.

But we didnt because they were Nuns and Priests and we were just nothing but children. And that made you think you would not be believed and afterall they were consecrated and Gods chosen ones, or at least thats what I believed.

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Feb 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Queen Isabella of Castile and her husband King Ferdinand of Aragon (Thats Spain) 1482....
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Queen Isabella of Castile and her husband King Ferdinand of Aragon (Thats Spain) 1482.

www.newadvent.org

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Hi, Patrick, I read the article which you provided on Queen Isabella, but did not find any indication of a policy of forced conversions of anyone whatsoever.

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