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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Well, David, most of what I typed in response to you didn't come through when I cli...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Well, David, most of what I typed in response to you didn't come through when I clicked "submit post." It is probably due to a formatting error on my part.

Basically, what I will take the time to reiterate from what was lost is that I don't have a personal investment in monarchy (whether Catholic or not), but historical fact shows an advantage to human spiritual development in monarchical style governments over what technology-crazed pseudo-democracy offers. Point in fact is the Vatican City-State and the Church itself.

The reason we need some sort of Catholic government, in response to your question, is because the abortion industry needs to be stifled.

Beyond this, I will let it go, as it is not interesting to you to discuss any longer.

I thank you for your patience with me and the fact that you did not deride or ridicule me, but rather engage on an actual human level.

All the best.

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Monarchy or a single rule tends to fit well with large states and very small states, te fact democracy allows all to decide is by nature confusing messy and divisive. A Monarchy or a Civil version of it, without the totalitarianism and police state bit, is the simplest form of government and decision making. The monarch advised by Parliament and Privy Council make a choice and ends the matter.

BUT all coins have 2 sides and monarchism is no different, the down side can be messy, and a tad bloody. But as a devout Socialist I would rather have a Monarch then an Oligarchy making decisions and in power as the monarch is 1 and rules many therefore they tend to be open to compromise more the ologarchs

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Feb 16th 2013 new

Breaking News BBC has just anounced the Conclave could be much sooner than March 15 according the the Secretary of the Curia. Watch this space.

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Feb 16th 2013 new

Breaking News BBC has just anounced the Conclave could be much sooner than March 15 according the the Secretary of the Curia. Watch this space. Cardinal Lombardi is the source

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Feb 16th 2013 new

We're off topic. I'm ready for the lock soon.

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Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Marita-847688 said: We're off topic. I'm ready for the lock soon.
(Quote) Marita-847688 said:

We're off topic. I'm ready for the lock soon.

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Uh oh! A control fairy is hovering above us, like the angel of death, waving her deadly wand!! wink


Conversations follow a natural ebb and flow. They veer. Most of us are responding to comments which were off topic. I'd much rather discuss how FULL of hope I am that the upcoming papal election and my bedrock certainty that the man selected, imperfect as he may be, will be the perfect man for the Chair of Peter at this moment in history. Mistrustful Catholics across the spectrum are fretting and wringing their hands about all the unseemly "politicking" which they believe is going on. And if it is, then so what? God and God alone will choose the next pope.


So to those who worry a modernist or heretic will be elected or that an arch-conservative will be elected I say be still, have faith, pray, trust God. Whoever's elected will be God's choice so who are we to second guess it? God's plan is written across centuries. All the Chicken littles (liberal and conservative alike) who are fussing and cmoplaining must be quiet and trust our loving Father.

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Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Do you know of any actual example in which a Catholic monarchy forced Catholicism on an...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Do you know of any actual example in which a Catholic monarchy forced Catholicism on anyone? I can't. To my knowledge, all that was required was that the non-Catholics (like muslims or jews, not speaking of heretics) stay segregated from the Catholics and wear some distinguishing garb, like what was laid out at the Council of Florence. Also, the edict of Nantes, if you recall even granted heretics moral powers, allowing them to work in public offices, etc (by prudential judgment of the king of France).

I think what you're envisioning is more of an oriental notion, which does not show an appreciation for separation of Church and state as the occidentals know of it. An example of this is shown in the iconoclast controversy in the Byzantine east with the Roman emperors mandating specific belief and practice as if the spiritual arm and then enforcing it with the might of the secular arm.

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While I suppose you could make the argument that the Decree of Alhambra (and similar acts of Ferdinand and Isabella), didn't technically force Catholicisim on anyone- they had the option of being banished- it's not a great stand to take. The Jews were prohibited from taking any gold or silver with them and consequently had to choose between a conversion and being forced to be exiled in an impoverished state. Then of course there was the little manner of the Tribuneral of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (aka the Spanish Inquisition) which stood ready to levy retribution against anyone who did not stay Catholic...

Moving along, there is a better example: we have the Edict of Fontainebleau issued by Louis XIV. Not only did it flatly outlaw the practice of Protestant religion, it required that the children of Protestant parents be baptized Catholic.

That sounds like forcing Catholicism to me.

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: While I suppose you could make the argument that the Decree of Alhambra (and similar acts...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

While I suppose you could make the argument that the Decree of Alhambra (and similar acts of Ferdinand and Isabella), didn't technically force Catholicisim on anyone- they had the option of being banished- it's not a great stand to take. The Jews were prohibited from taking any gold or silver with them and consequently had to choose between a conversion and being forced to be exiled in an impoverished state. Then of course there was the little manner of the Tribuneral of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (aka the Spanish Inquisition) which stood ready to levy retribution against anyone who did not stay Catholic...

Moving along, there is a better example: we have the Edict of Fontainebleau issued by Louis XIV. Not only did it flatly outlaw the practice of Protestant religion, it required that the children of Protestant parents be baptized Catholic.

That sounds like forcing Catholicism to me.

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Thanks for the support, I said that in an earlier post. Most gracious of you sir

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Chris-840826 said: Please Please Please Please can we please have Cardinal Dolan be selected?
(Quote) Chris-840826 said:

Please Please Please Please can we please have Cardinal Dolan be selected?

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Please, let's not have Dolan be selected.

OTOH, I would like it if Cardinal Burke was selected. He's the one on the Apostolic Signatura, and at 64 is on the younger side of the College of Cardinal (and about the same age as Dolan).

Your youngest cardinals are Moran Baselios Cardinal Cleemis, who, as the head of the Syro-Malankala Catholic Church is the youngest cardinal at the age of 53. He's practically middle aged!

en.wikipedia.org

Then there is Luis Cardinal Tagle, Archbishop of Manila at age 55. One possible issue with him is the controversy over his history of the Second Vatican Council, which is seem by some as to progressive a reading of it.

en.wikipedia.org

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Feb 17th 2013 new


Really Steven, I am curious what your reasoning is for not wanting to see Dolan be selected?
Especially with his handling of the re-election and the HHS Mandate, he has shown the ability to stand up to the POTUS, and the ability to shine in politics on behalf of the Church is something I feel should be one of the strongest qualities of the Pope.
I think Dolan would be great for battling the secularization of the world, especially in Europe.

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Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Chris-840826 said: Really Steven, I am curious what your reasoning is for not wanting to see Dolan be selected?<...
(Quote) Chris-840826 said:


Really Steven, I am curious what your reasoning is for not wanting to see Dolan be selected?
Especially with his handling of the re-election and the HHS Mandate, he has shown the ability to stand up to the POTUS, and the ability to shine in politics on behalf of the Church is something I feel should be one of the strongest qualities of the Pope.
I think Dolan would be great for battling the secularization of the world, especially in Europe.

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Because anything Dolan is credited for doing, Burke has done far more consistently and forcefully, particularly in regards to the definition of marriage. Also, Burke has not had a history of...shall we say "discretionary" retreats...at moments when his voice would've been most needed. I am particularly thinking of his performance during the redefinition of marriage in New York, when, where the vote was being taken, he couldn't be found anywhere in the state. He only sent a letter condemning the thing after the fact.

www.catholicculture.org

www.catholicculture.org

On top of that, he's not felt to be particularly friendly to Tradition as Burke is. He's never done a Traditional Latin Mass (unlike Burke), and there is not one FSSP parish or mission in New York State, much less the city proper. The nearest is in New Jersey. This is kind of ironic when you consider that the only priest (this is an archdiocese of millions, and only one ordination to the priesthood?!) to be ordained by him last year did celebrate the TDM as his first mass.

www.nytimes.com

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