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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Feb 19th 2013 new

I just heard on the news one of the names on the list as a possible Pope is Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston. That would be awsome to have an American Pope.

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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Brendan-824174 said: I just heard on the news one of the names on the list as a possible Pope is Cardinal Sean O'...
(Quote) Brendan-824174 said:

I just heard on the news one of the names on the list as a possible Pope is Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston. That would be awsome to have an American Pope.

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There will potentially be 116 Cardinals in the Conclave. All are on the list of possible Popes. In fact the number of possible candidates is almost limitless as every Catholic man is eligible although unlikely to be considered.

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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Marcy-769874 said: I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread to...
(Quote) Marcy-769874 said:



I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread topic, but: The God of the Catholics is NOT the same as the gods of the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or any other false religion.
You cannot pray to God the Father while rejecting God the Son or God the Holy Spirit, they are ONE!
Those who do not worship the true God worship false gods (otherwise known as Satan). This is why God gave the first commandment to Moses.

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God is Who He is whether any particular individual understands his true nature or not.

As long as an individual's prayer is sincere based on his beleif and understanding of God, the prayer has value. And jolining him is prayer in no way violates the Commandment.

I would also point out to you that Judaism IS NOT now nor has it ever been a false religion.

So it is not I who needs correction. Try reading and understanding the Section of the Cathechism entitled "The Universal Call to Prayer"

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Feb 19th 2013 new
(Quote) Marcy-769874 said: I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread topic, but: The ...
(Quote) Marcy-769874 said:



I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread topic, but: The God of the Catholics is NOT the same as the gods of the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or any other false religion.
You cannot pray to God the Father while rejecting God the Son or God the Holy Spirit, they are ONE!
Those who do not worship the true God worship false gods (otherwise known as Satan). This is why God gave the first commandment to Moses.

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Without the Jews obstinate refusal in recognizing Jesus as Messiah, the "full measure" of gentiles (us) would not have had a chance to enter into the fullness of Christ (Romans 11:25). In other words the Jews serve the purpose of God (Father, Son and Spirit) by their refusal to believe He is the Messiah. They are still God's chosen people and they still worship the same God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), the just do not understand it as we do (Matthew 13:11, the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven have not been given them, but have been given you).

Jesus has always been with the Father, the Trinity has always existed, Jesus divested himself of His Divinity to become one of us. This is what the Jews are blinded into not seeing.

Read your Catechism about what the Catholic Church teaches in regards to the Jews. You are misinformed.
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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Joanna-615441 said: Without the Jews obstinate refusal in recognizing Jesus as Messiah, the "full measure"...
(Quote) Joanna-615441 said:

Without the Jews obstinate refusal in recognizing Jesus as Messiah, the "full measure" of gentiles (us) would not have had a chance to enter into the fullness of Christ (Romans 11:25). In other words the Jews serve the purpose of God (Father, Son and Spirit) by their refusal to believe He is the Messiah. They are still God's chosen people and they still worship the same God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), the just do not understand it as we do (Matthew 13:11, the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven have not been given them, but have been given you).

Jesus has always been with the Father, the Trinity has always existed, Jesus divested himself of His Divinity to become one of us. This is what the Jews are blinded into not seeing.

Read your Catechism about what the Catholic Church teaches in regards to the Jews. You are misinformed.
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Thanks Joanna.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM for hatred or criticism of the Jews in our faith. None. As Christians, we must love and respect the Jews - even (or especially) when we don't always receive the same love and respect in return.


It's a cardinal error and a terrible sin to actively dislike or hate anyone - let alone the people who are God's chosen and who were instrumental in opening the path of salvation to all. Our Lord was born, lived, died, and rose a devout Jew. Since Pentecost, there have been two branches of Judaism: (i) Rabbinical Judaism; and (ii) Roman Catholicsm and the Orthodox rites. The Catholic/orthodox rites are the full and complete form of Judaism. Our faith is a continuation of Judaism - not its repudiation or replacement. The thrid branch was Temple Judaism. It died out in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple as foretold by Jesus. But Rabbinical Judaism survives to this day.


It harms the Church and gravely wounds the Body of Christ when any Catholics criticize Jews, propose reasons to dislike them, or (worst of all) spout Antisemitic hatred. It is cause for scandal. It tarnishes the reputation of the entire Church. I'm not saying that's what happened in this thread, but I am saying it is a terrible sin to do any of these things. Can we agree on that?



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Feb 19th 2013 new

You can recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. Even if it wants to call itself something else. Are there Jewish people today who still sacrifice animals for the atonement of their sins? If not, how are they "god's people"? The law was replaced by a much better covenant between God and man. The blood of Jesus covers the sins of all who repent and believe- but he still gets rejected, by people who prefer the traditons of men. Mark ch7 v6 "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me" Jesus refering to the Pharisees.

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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) William-675153 said: You can recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. Even if it wants to call itself something else....
(Quote) William-675153 said:

You can recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. Even if it wants to call itself something else. Are there Jewish people today who still sacrifice animals for the atonement of their sins? If not, how are they "god's people"? The law was replaced by a much better covenant between God and man. The blood of Jesus covers the sins of all who repent and believe- but he still gets rejected, by people who prefer the traditons of men. Mark ch7 v6 "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me" Jesus refering to the Pharisees.

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One of the premises of your statement disregards historical reality.

It is true that no Jew today offers sacrifices as required by the Jewish law. But that is because there is no temple where those sacrifices could be made, and no practising priesthood to perform them. Now any Male Jew who is of the tribe of Levy, is by Jewish (God's) lawis a priest. And heirs to that are alive today. But they would still need the temple, a temple where the Ark of the Covenant resides to practise as priests.

That was also true In Jesus's time. Any Jew that was not living within a relatively short distance from Jerusalem, was not offering sacrifices either. But they did go to the synagogue to pray in accordance with the law. And that is what practising Jews do today.

I have known a lot of Jews in my time and many of them were better "christians" than a lot of Catholics I have known.

Take your reasoning to its ultimate conclusion and you are faced with the fact that what you believe is contrary to Church teaching. The rational and ultimate conclusion to your line of reasoning is that no non-catholic can be saved no matter how exemplary and prayerful their lives might be.

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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Marcy-769874 said: I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread to...
(Quote) Marcy-769874 said:



I'm sorry to have to correct you again Paul, and I know this is way off the thread topic, but: The God of the Catholics is NOT the same as the gods of the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or any other false religion.
You cannot pray to God the Father while rejecting God the Son or God the Holy Spirit, they are ONE!
Those who do not worship the true God worship false gods (otherwise known as Satan). This is why God gave the first commandment to Moses.

--hide--

You contradict yourself; First you make the (horribly wrong) accusation that the Jews are followers of a false religion, but then you admit that God (the exact same God you deny that the Jews worship) gave the commandments to Moses!

There is but one true God. Just because somebody has an incomplete, or flatly wrong view of God or how to worship Him doesn't change who He is. So while modern Jews failed to understand the significance of Christ, they still worship the same God as Catholics. The Muslims worship the God of Abraham who is the same God that Catholics worship. Granted, we certainly do not hold Mohammad to be a proffet, nor the Koran to be sacred scripture. But that does not change the fact that we also worship the God of Abraham. The fact that another group does not understand the true theology does not mean that their misunderstanding changes who God is. God is Who Am, and that does not depend on any human figuring out the details. It is most uncharitable, not to mention factually wrong, to say that because somebody doesn't have their theology right, they aren't even attempting to worship the one true God. If perfect understanding of God is a prerequisite for worshipping Him, NOBODY would able to do it. So even though we might all agree that the Muslims get a tremendous amount of their theology wrong, that does not alter the reality that they are attempting to worship the one true God, the same God as Catholics.

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Feb 19th 2013 new

Im sorry, Imconfused, So Jews today and or for the last several centuries... dont have their sins forgiven because they dont have a Temple with the Ark of the covenant in it where they could also preside as priests??

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Feb 19th 2013 new

(Quote) William-675153 said: You can recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. Even if it wants to call itself something else....
(Quote) William-675153 said:

You can recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. Even if it wants to call itself something else. Are there Jewish people today who still sacrifice animals for the atonement of their sins? If not, how are they "god's people"? The law was replaced by a much better covenant between God and man. The blood of Jesus covers the sins of all who repent and believe- but he still gets rejected, by people who prefer the traditons of men. Mark ch7 v6 "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me" Jesus refering to the Pharisees.

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Not sure how this responds to my post. Temple Judaism ended in 70 A.D. The only forms of Judaism today are Rabbinical Judaism and Catholic/Orthodox Christianity.


God's relation to his chosen is a mystery. What is their status today? Are their sins forgiven? There are many good and pious Jews who earnestly seek holiness and love our God. We'll have to get to heaven to learn what their fate is. Until then, we love and respect them as our elder brothers and sisters in the faith.

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