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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taug...
(Quote) John-324285 said:



Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taught by the Church. That is all I am attempting to do, I make no claims to be a doctor or a saint, but I won't sit as a hermit concerned with only myself when there are so many souls in this world who thirst for the Truth of God. Remember there have been times where almost the whole Catholic world was in heresy (Arianism) and few spoke up. Any Pope prior to John XXIII would have never kissed or Koran, held ecumenical services, (prayer or otherwise) or called on the inner humanistic in us in a appeal for peace. As every Catholic knows (or should know) that true peace cannot be found in man, but only from God.

We live in a time of diabolical disorientation, Our Lady has tried to warn the world and Catholics specifically several times, (Fatima, La Sallet, and others) that if the world does not turn back to her Son there will be much suffering. Why should we keep quiet when we have heard straight from Heaven that we need to do penance and to turn back to God? Doing so only aids the Prince of this world. We are called to be spiritual warriors and part of that is verbal combat with heretics, schematics, fallen away brethren, and pagans.

As for the tail can not wag the dog, God does not work in such simplistic ways. There have been times where saints have corrected bishops, cardinals, popes, yet they are not the tail are they? Yes they were saints, but they were not in the "position of power or authority" over those positions, so in that sense they are the tail. Again, I am not claiming to be anything near a saint as the Lord knows I am a sinner. What I am trying to do is be some small flagbearer for the Truth that the Church has protected and passed down from Christ through the Apostles, which is what ALL Catholics are called to be; bearers of Truth.

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Can't disagree with the overall thrust of your statement. The only problem I see in it is that part of it is based on your own interpretation of how things should be rather than what they actually are. There is nothing wrong with kissing anyone's holy book as a sign of respect for the others belief. In no way did it signify an acceptance and approval of what is not really the word of God. Nothing wrong with taking part in a ecumenical prayer service.

Every Pope since Pius XII has not strayed from the truth of the Faith. None have committed heresy. All have called for the faithful and the world to turn to God and Jesus Christ and His Church.

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taug...
(Quote) John-324285 said:



Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taught by the Church. That is all I am attempting to do, I make no claims to be a doctor or a saint, but I won't sit as a hermit concerned with only myself when there are so many souls in this world who thirst for the Truth of God. Remember there have been times where almost the whole Catholic world was in heresy (Arianism) and few spoke up. Any Pope prior to John XXIII would have never kissed or Koran, held ecumenical services, (prayer or otherwise) or called on the inner humanistic in us in a appeal for peace. As every Catholic knows (or should know) that true peace cannot be found in man, but only from God.

We live in a time of diabolical disorientation, Our Lady has tried to warn the world and Catholics specifically several times, (Fatima, La Sallet, and others) that if the world does not turn back to her Son there will be much suffering. Why should we keep quiet when we have heard straight from Heaven that we need to do penance and to turn back to God? Doing so only aids the Prince of this world. We are called to be spiritual warriors and part of that is verbal combat with heretics, schematics, fallen away brethren, and pagans.

As for the tail can not wag the dog, God does not work in such simplistic ways. There have been times where saints have corrected bishops, cardinals, popes, yet they are not the tail are they? Yes they were saints, but they were not in the "position of power or authority" over those positions, so in that sense they are the tail. Again, I am not claiming to be anything near a saint as the Lord knows I am a sinner. What I am trying to do is be some small flagbearer for the Truth that the Church has protected and passed down from Christ through the Apostles, which is what ALL Catholics are called to be; bearers of Truth.

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\

John, I know nothing of your background, but perhaps you are being called to become a lay missionary or to some other ministry in the Church. With your passion, I suspect that you could be of invaluable service to our Church.

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Can't disagree with the overall thrust of your statement. The only problem I see in i...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Can't disagree with the overall thrust of your statement. The only problem I see in it is that part of it is based on your own interpretation of how things should be rather than what they actually are. There is nothing wrong with kissing anyone's holy book as a sign of respect for the others belief. In no way did it signify an acceptance and approval of what is not really the word of God. Nothing wrong with taking part in a ecumenical prayer service.

Every Pope since Pius XII has not strayed from the truth of the Faith. None have committed heresy. All have called for the faithful and the world to turn to God and Jesus Christ and His Church.

--hide--



Paul. Would Christ Himself kiss the Koran or attend services from another denomination/faith? If not, why is his Vicar on earth doing so? Also there are many scripture verses that tell us that our God is a jealous God and that we cannot serve two masters. Isn't kissing or showing respect for something that is not truth (koran) giving it some credibility or trying to reconcile a lie (untruth) with the truth (Christ)? Those who try to reconcile the world (any other faith) with the Word are making a vain attempt at something that is entirely impossible. Again there is scripture stating such. Catholics need to stand up to these abuses and call everyone to follow Christ faithfully and only!

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02/12/2013 new

Did the Pope (John Paul II) REALLY kiss the Koran?

www.freerepublic.com

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taug...
(Quote) John-324285 said:



Part of living the faith IS being a light to the truth and defending the truth always taught by the Church. That is all I am attempting to do, I make no claims to be a doctor or a saint, but I won't sit as a hermit concerned with only myself when there are so many souls in this world who thirst for the Truth of God. Remember there have been times where almost the whole Catholic world was in heresy (Arianism) and few spoke up. Any Pope prior to John XXIII would have never kissed or Koran, held ecumenical services, (prayer or otherwise) or called on the inner humanistic in us in a appeal for peace. As every Catholic knows (or should know) that true peace cannot be found in man, but only from God.

We live in a time of diabolical disorientation, Our Lady has tried to warn the world and Catholics specifically several times, (Fatima, La Sallet, and others) that if the world does not turn back to her Son there will be much suffering. Why should we keep quiet when we have heard straight from Heaven that we need to do penance and to turn back to God? Doing so only aids the Prince of this world. We are called to be spiritual warriors and part of that is verbal combat with heretics, schematics, fallen away brethren, and pagans.

As for the tail can not wag the dog, God does not work in such simplistic ways. There have been times where saints have corrected bishops, cardinals, popes, yet they are not the tail are they? Yes they were saints, but they were not in the "position of power or authority" over those positions, so in that sense they are the tail. Again, I am not claiming to be anything near a saint as the Lord knows I am a sinner. What I am trying to do is be some small flagbearer for the Truth that the Church has protected and passed down from Christ through the Apostles, which is what ALL Catholics are called to be; bearers of Truth.

--hide--


You're assuming a false dichotomy. I didn't say that we should do nothing. Rather, we should strive to be holy and faithful. When we do that we are not hermits but salt and leaven in our families, workplaces, parishes, and the larger world. We must always bware to fht erisk of assuming that we are right and others are wrong or of projecting our will and expectations as God's will. We must banish pride before correcting others. We must always remember that God is never coercive; he will never force someone to do anything and neither must we. So yes, I agree we should pray and work for a better Church, but we must always be mindful of our motives and of our place, lest pride get the best of us and we end up doing mmore harm than good. We must work on ourselves before doing God's work in areas beyond our immediate circles. Remember Jesus's words about pouring new wine into old skins. Let's replace our old skins before we pour any of God's new wine into them.


Finally, there will always be bad in the Church. Jesus told us this would be so:


He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?' He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'" Mt 13:24-30





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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: Paul. Would Christ Himself kiss the Koran or attend services from another denomination...
(Quote) John-324285 said:




Paul. Would Christ Himself kiss the Koran or attend services from another denomination/faith? If not, why is his Vicar on earth doing so? Also there are many scripture verses that tell us that our God is a jealous God and that we cannot serve two masters. Isn't kissing or showing respect for something that is not truth (koran) giving it some credibility or trying to reconcile a lie (untruth) with the truth (Christ)? Those who try to reconcile the world (any other faith) with the Word are making a vain attempt at something that is entirely impossible. Again there is scripture stating such. Catholics need to stand up to these abuses and call everyone to follow Christ faithfully and only!

--hide--


Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Where is your trust? This is appalling. Consider the enormity of your false accusations please. Thoughts like this keep you from God but fool you into thinking you're doing God's work.

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: Paul. Would Christ Himself kiss the Koran or attend services from another denomination...
(Quote) John-324285 said:




Paul. Would Christ Himself kiss the Koran or attend services from another denomination/faith? If not, why is his Vicar on earth doing so? Also there are many scripture verses that tell us that our God is a jealous God and that we cannot serve two masters. Isn't kissing or showing respect for something that is not truth (koran) giving it some credibility or trying to reconcile a lie (untruth) with the truth (Christ)? Those who try to reconcile the world (any other faith) with the Word are making a vain attempt at something that is entirely impossible. Again there is scripture stating such. Catholics need to stand up to these abuses and call everyone to follow Christ faithfully and only!

--hide--

Christ came with a specific mission which He fulfilled.

But to directly answer your question, yes He would. Attending a service in itself is not wrong by any rational definition. If your best friend's mother died and they were Protestants, and your friend asked that you offer a prayer at the service, would you refuse to go to the services in his church and refuse to offer the requested prayer?

If you answered yes you would refuse, you wouild lose your best firend and call down upon yourself the displeausre of the Almighty.

If you had not noticed that Christ attended Services in both synagogues as well as the temple being led by less than honorable men even heretical in terms of HIS Jewish faith. Did He sin by doing so? Of course not.

Kissing the Koran was not a sign of approval of it or its teachings. It was a sign of respect to the people who honestly believe in what it teaches. Do you reject from your life anyone who is not firmly traditional, as you understand that to mean, Catholics? If you do, you are not living the Gospels message. Kissing the Koran was not an attempt to reconcile it. It was an attempt to reconcile the people of the Koran to God.

I don't how or where you acquired your understanding of the Gospels message. I would just point out that, based on your stance, your beliefs border on the beliefs, of the SSPX schismatics.

The Church is of God, but it exits in time here on earth and its members from the lowliest to the Pope are flawed human beings. The Church must operate in the world. As such it must find a way to operate effectively in that world so that it can carry out its mission of leading all to Christ. That cannot be done by antagonizing everyone outside of the Church. The Church cannot and has not compromised any of its teachings in its attempt to accommodate itself to live in the modern world in a manner that allows it to fulfill its mission.

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Whe...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Where is your trust? This is appalling. Consider the enormity of your false accusations please. Thoughts like this keep you from God but fool you into thinking you're doing God's work.

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Hear! Hear!! Succinctly stated and appropriate.

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Did the Pope (John Paul II) REALLY kiss ...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Did the Pope (John Paul II) REALLY kiss the Koran?

www.freerepublic.com

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Thanks for posting this Bernard.


JPII is bending forward. We can't say he's kissing the Koran. He's looking at a book which may or may not be the Koran.


Why do certain Catholics seek to deride the greatest Holy Father of the past century? Why second guess a true saint?

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02/12/2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Whe...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Don't you DARE attack JPII!!! Who do you think you are? Where is your faith? Where is your trust? This is appalling. Consider the enormity of your false accusations please. Thoughts like this keep you from God but fool you into thinking you're doing God's work.

--hide--


So the koran thing could or could not be, I'm fine giving the benefit of the doubt there. You don't address the other issues of ecumenical services ect that several popes have participated in. I am asking if Christ would ever have done such given He alone is to be given praise and worship?

Yes how dare I call into question the acts of a man, just as you and I. One with the stain of original sin. One who is supposed to provide the pinnacle example of the Truth entrusted to us by Jesus. There could never be popes who held or personally taught heresy in the Church, or other bishops ect cause the Holy Ghost would not allow that right?

padrepioandchiesaviva.com read the first part of chapter 6 or better yet the whole book. This is what we must fight, and it is entrenched in the minds of not only the secular, but within the very Bride of Christ.

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