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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) John-842063 said: exageration-wOW-FOR SURE- MOST PLACES IN THE CARRIBEAN HAVE MULTIPLE CHURCHES WITHIN WALK...
(Quote) John-842063 said:

exageration-wOW-FOR SURE- MOST PLACES IN THE CARRIBEAN HAVE MULTIPLE CHURCHES WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE! srry about the caps...

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What's your point? In my example, I did not specify the location of the Club Med. They exist all over the world. In fact, there used to be one in Cuba - where at that time, there was no Catholic Church you could go to (probably 10-15 years ago). I've been to islands in the Caribbean though that had 1 Catholic Church ( Providenciales in the Turks and Caicos) and there are islands in that chain (Parrot Cay) that have NO Catholic Church. I also believe that on many of the islands, the "multiple churches" you reference are NOT Catholic, but some version of Protestant.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: This particular cruise will be "at sea" on Saturday and Sunday.
(Quote) Marge-938695 said:

This particular cruise will be "at sea" on Saturday and Sunday.

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Exactly, with no opportunity to attend Mass since there is no priest on board.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

I can see your point.

That said, I might point out that most of the people signing up for the trip appear to be women.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: I can see your point.That said, I might point out that most of the people signing up for ...
(Quote) Marge-938695 said:

I can see your point.

That said, I might point out that most of the people signing up for the trip appear to be women.

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Okay, Marge, but I don't quite understand what point you are making about mostly women signing up for the trip?

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Hi Ray, my understanding about this particular trip is that there are people attending ...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Hi Ray, my understanding about this particular trip is that there are people attending who are NOT CM members (Catholic or not).

And, although, yes, vacation circumstances may make attending Mass difficult, I have never found it to be impossible, particularly if you plan the vacation taking Sunday Mass into account (such as checking the internet ahead of time to find where the local Church is).

For example there are 2 cruise lines (I was told) that always have a priest onboard. So, why not plan the cruise with that line rather than the one that only has a priest at Christmas or Easter?

I think really the only place one could not find a Mass would be a communist country such as China or perhaps a Muslim country in the mideast. To me, if one were travelling to one of those countries that would be a valid reason to miss Mass or get a dispensation. Otherwise, it truly makes me wonder why a priest would give someone a dispensation = as shouldn't we as active Catholics be putting God first (even on vacation)? And, of course, if there were CM members at an event that are not Catholic, I don't think anyone would strongarm them into attending Sunday Mass is they didn't want to.

I find this situation very disappointing and just another way to dilute the practice of our Faith and as I said surprised that such an event would be allowed on the CM Events page.

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I think that many (most?) CM events have not excluded people of different faiths. They are likely in a minority. I don't feel our own faith is diluted by their presence -- in fact; it's probably the other way around.

A commentary on the precepts of the Church (which is where the obligation to attend Sunday Mass) includes "significant travel" as a potentially legitimate reason to be excused from the Sunday obligation. It is not strictly a dispensation as I worded it earlier. Reasonable efforts can and should be made, but that's subject to interpretation. Some people could work themselves into a frenzy trying to jump through hoops (i.e, plan a special vacation with the requirement that it takes place where a Mass can be attended). On a cruise, many ships have chaplains available for services, including priests.

If we consider the original commandment to "keep holy the Lord's day", it doesn't mention one must attend Mass. That came into being as a Church rule, or precept (something being bound on earth). As a precept, it's comparable to the old rule about abstaining from meat on ALL Fridays. The Church rules can be changed, and obviously have been.

If I've attended Mass every Sunday for as long as I can remember, and there is "significant travel" which cannot easily be re-arranged, I could regard that as a legitimate reason for missing one Mass. For some, it would be considered a wrongful act for them. Would I prefer attending Mass? Yup, but since such traveling isn't a high priority for me, I most likely won't be in that situation. For a person who is truly uncomfortable with missing Mass under the circumstances, the choice is theirs.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: I think that many (most?) CM events have not excluded people of different faiths. They are likely i...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

I think that many (most?) CM events have not excluded people of different faiths. They are likely in a minority. I don't feel our own faith is diluted by their presence -- in fact; it's probably the other way around.

A commentary on the precepts of the Church (which is where the obligation to attend Sunday Mass) includes "significant travel" as a potentially legitimate reason to be excused from the Sunday obligation. It is not strictly a dispensation as I worded it earlier. Reasonable efforts can and should be made, but that's subject to interpretation. Some people could work themselves into a frenzy trying to jump through hoops (i.e, plan a special vacation with the requirement that it takes place where a Mass can be attended). On a cruise, many ships have chaplains available for services, including priests.

If we consider the original commandment to "keep holy the Lord's day", it doesn't mention one must attend Mass. That came into being as a Church rule, or precept (something being bound on earth). As a precept, it's comparable to the old rule about abstaining from meat on ALL Fridays. The Church rules can be changed, and obviously have been.

If I've attended Mass every Sunday for as long as I can remember, and there is "significant travel" which cannot easily be re-arranged, I could regard that as a legitimate reason for missing one Mass. For some, it would be considered a wrongful act for them. Would I prefer attending Mass? Yup, but since such traveling isn't a high priority for me, I most likely won't be in that situation. For a person who is truly uncomfortable with missing Mass under the circumstances, the choice is theirs.

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It's not difficult to plan a vacation such that one can attend Mass (and thus receive the Eucharist), so I do take exception to your description saying that "some people could work themselves into a frenzy trying to jump through hoops" to describe this. Really? I don't recall working myself into a frenzy to jump through hoops! But, actually, I would jump through hoops to be able to go to Mass to receive Christ. Don't you think it is important to go to Mass and receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ? If you've watched EWTN or talked to holy priests or read the words written by the Saints, it becomes clear that receiving Christ in the Eucharist (which one can generally do only at Mass) is the most important thing we can do. I truly don't understand why anyone would want to miss this on Sunday (or Sat. PM), particularly when it is quite easy to plan just a bit so that one can attend Mass while on vacation (or in this example choose a different cruise line that has a priest onboard).

I'm actually surprised at the responses being given here in this thread. It appears that you and others are supporting the position that it is just fine to miss Mass while on vacation instead of making the effort to attend Mass ( and not just because it is a "rule" of the Church, but because it is the most important way to become close to Christ ). That attitude is just so foreign to me - and so very sad (perhaps not uncommon though in this secular culture we live in and which Catholics seem to be starting to assimilate.)

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: It's not difficult to plan a vacation such that one can attend Mass (and thus recei...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



It's not difficult to plan a vacation such that one can attend Mass (and thus receive the Eucharist), so I do take exception to your description saying that "some people could work themselves into a frenzy trying to jump through hoops" to describe this. Really? I don't recall working myself into a frenzy to jump through hoops! But, actually, I would jump through hoops to be able to go to Mass to receive Christ. Don't you think it is important to go to Mass and receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ? If you've watched EWTN or talked to holy priests or read the words written by the Saints, it becomes clear that receiving Christ in the Eucharist (which one can generally do only at Mass) is the most important thing we can do. I truly don't understand why anyone would want to miss this on Sunday (or Sat. PM), particularly when it is quite easy to plan just a bit so that one can attend Mass while on vacation (or in this example choose a different cruise line that has a priest onboard).

I'm actually surprised at the responses being given here in this thread. It appears that you and others are supporting the position that it is just fine to miss Mass while on vacation instead of making the effort to attend Mass ( and not just because it is a "rule" of the Church, but because it is the most important way to become close to Christ ). That attitude is just so foreign to me - and so very sad (perhaps not uncommon though in this secular culture we live in and which Catholics seem to be starting to assimilate.)

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As I stated, I do take the obligation seriously, but after years of talking about such situations with priests and clergy, I follow their line of thinking. For the record, some of these conversations took place before Vatican II. I've known people who have gone into the wilderness where accessibility was limited and accessible only by plane which offered limited flights. No -- no churches of any kind around. No - no special flights to pick up someone to attend Mass over 200 miles away. Actually, there weren't even any hoops to jump through. Did they select that location just to get away from going to Church? No -- it was incidental. Was this something done often? No - it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. They were completely disconnected from civilization, and that helped them in their mental, emotional, and yes, spiritual well being by doing that. Were they wrong in going? I don't believe so. In fact, one of them returned more spiritually awake than ever -- the experience included spending quiet, isolated time with the Lord and he cam back a better person.

How many keep holy the Lord's day even if they attend Mass, then do servile work during the rest of the day? Is that a better situation than one who misses one Mass in his/her lifetime for a valid reason? How common is it to see cars zooming out of the parking lot seconds after the closing hymn is finished? "Go and serve the Lord." That can be done in different ways.

I know you aren't keen about my position, but you make it seem as if I'm approving of sloughing off. There's a difference in the situations and our words are being unjustly twisted. If you feel it's wrong, STAY HOME. The others are responsible for themselves.

Instead of pouncing on a small group missing one Mass, but otherwise faithfully attending, shouldn't we be concentrating on those non-practicing Catholics many of whom live within walking distance from a Catholic Church? They're the ones that need prodding.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Donna-83441 said: I think you're well within your rights to refuse the trip. But there are clearly others intere...
(Quote) Donna-83441 said:

I think you're well within your rights to refuse the trip. But there are clearly others interested and it's being promoted by CM'rs so why ruin it for the other members?

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Donna -- I'm in full agreement with your position.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: I also have to say that I disagree with your 2nd point. All fellowship is not equal. Th...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



I also have to say that I disagree with your 2nd point. All fellowship is not equal. That is why I would not attend one of the Match.com events that they are now holding in major cities. Although they issue invitations to people roughly in the same geographical area and in the same age range, that is all they match onl, so one could be attending events with people that you have nothing in common with - particularly in terms of faith, ethics, values, etc. That is why I'm on CM rather than match.com. And, that is why I would rather be attending events with Catholic members whose faith is supported with at least the ability to attend Sunday Mass if the event runs through Saturday night and all day Sunday.

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Some of your comments could be considered snobbish and uncharitable toward our Christian brothers and sisters. As previously stated, some are here to learn about the Catholic Faith, and are considering joining it. Portraying an attitude that they are not welcome is not setting a welcoming example for them. We are all God's children and deserve to be treated as such.

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Feb 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: As I stated, I do take the obligation seriously, but after years of talking about such situations w...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

As I stated, I do take the obligation seriously, but after years of talking about such situations with priests and clergy, I follow their line of thinking. For the record, some of these conversations took place before Vatican II. I've known people who have gone into the wilderness where accessibility was limited and accessible only by plane which offered limited flights. No -- no churches of any kind around. No - no special flights to pick up someone to attend Mass over 200 miles away. Actually, there weren't even any hoops to jump through. Did they select that location just to get away from going to Church? No -- it was incidental. Was this something done often? No - it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. They were completely disconnected from civilization, and that helped them in their mental, emotional, and yes, spiritual well being by doing that. Were they wrong in going? I don't believe so. In fact, one of them returned more spiritually awake than ever -- the experience included spending quiet, isolated time with the Lord and he cam back a better person.

How many keep holy the Lord's day even if they attend Mass, then do servile work during the rest of the day? Is that a better situation than one who misses one Mass in his/her lifetime for a valid reason? How common is it to see cars zooming out of the parking lot seconds after the closing hymn is finished? "Go and serve the Lord." That can be done in different ways.

I know you aren't keen about my position, but you make it seem as if I'm approving of sloughing off. There's a difference in the situations and our words are being unjustly twisted. If you feel it's wrong, STAY HOME. The others are responsible for themselves.

Instead of pouncing on a small group missing one Mass, but otherwise faithfully attending, shouldn't we be concentrating on those non-practicing Catholics many of whom live within walking distance from a Catholic Church? They're the ones that need prodding.

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Again, why do you say that I am "pouncing" on a group of people when the primary reason I started this thread is to ask the question of why an event would be posted on CM that does not include the opportunity to go to Mass on a Sunday (or Sat. PM). You seem to be taking this very personally, and this is the second posting of yours in which you are exaggerating or misinterpreting what I posted and I see that in another posting of yours, you are now calling me snobbish and uncharitable? No one in my life has ever suggested that, and if you knew me you never would either. And, do you think it is charitable to call someone names?

I would certainly agree with you that if one is in the wilderness for a vacation where there is no church for hundreds of miles, then, of course they cannot get to Mass, but that is not what we are talking about here. And, I have just been sent a private email telling me that the Ave Maria cruise also in January every year has a priest onboard who says daily Mass - in case anyone reading this thread is looking for that. Obviously the reaction I am fielding from you and others here has intimidated a CM member who agrees with me from posting here and so instead they sent me a private message agreeing that they don't understand why a Catholic group would plan a cruise without a Sunday Mass. Imagine that - a thread in which Catholic members are showing their lack of support for attending Sunday Mass while on vacation. What kind of example is that showing for any non-Catholic members reading this or those who may not be strong in their Faith?

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