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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Carole-893801 said: Correlation.Per the catholic church abortion is wrong , premarital sex is wrong. but that is...
(Quote) Carole-893801 said:

Correlation.
Per the catholic church abortion is wrong , premarital sex is wrong. but that is one of the questions on this site.
Birth control is wrong except for rythm methode( maybe that has changed)
Viagra when used by men outside of their marriage to enhance sexual performance should also be wrong.

If we believe that women become pregnant by God's grace and all babies are a gift from GOD because they are truly precious. ( Which I truly believe)

Should we not also believe that if we are not able to conceive or procreate. ... GOD has a reason?
If the above is true than If a man no longer can " preform" then maybe GOD has a reason for that too?

I'm not saying any of the above is right. I just think it is something to think about.

--hide--

>>> Birth control is wrong except for rythm methode( maybe that has changed)

While the so-called rhythm method could be considered a natural family planning (NFP) technique and is not morally objectionable, it is not particularly effective and is not taught by any reputable NFP instructors. The techniques taught for NFP today are far more reliable.

>>> Viagra when used by men outside of their marriage to enhance sexual performance should also be wrong.

All sex outside marriage is immoral, as is anything ordered to that end -- which would include using Viagra for that purpose.

Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Carole-893801 said: I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Cat...
(Quote) Carole-893801 said:

I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Catholic teaching and God.


1)We all believe or asked to believe that abortion for what ever reason is against our teaching and church.
2) We all or are suppose to believe and practice ---NO premarital sex. Though I noticed that it is an option on this site.

If the above it true... Viagra also should be against Catholic believes and practice. God, whether directly or by medication is the one that chooses to make a man impotent. There maybe a very good reason God decided for the man to be impotent. His sperms maybe defective....Why put an innocent child through that misery. GOD is merciful. What gives humans the right to over ride GOD. We should not override GOD's decision in any matter when it comes to reproduction.
SEX is for reproduction and married couples. If sex in a marriage produces a handicapped child at least the child will have two loving parents. Handicapped children born by premarital sex are often raised solely by the mother since the father suddenly realizes that the church does not condone premarital sex.


What do other Catholic males or females think of the above. Agree or disagree and why?

--hide--

>>> NO premarital sex. Though I noticed that it is an option on this site.

I'm not sure what you mean b premarital sex is "an option on this site." If you are referring to the faith question in the profile, that in no way signifies it is an option; it is simply a way for individuals to indicate that the assent or dissent with Church teachings on that point. Ideally, everyone would agree; however, reality is far from the ideal.

>>> There maybe a very good reason God decided for the man to be impotent. His sperms maybe defective....

The physiological mechanisms that result in impotence are generally quite different than those responsible for the production of sperm. While in some cases where the to conditions exist concurrently, that is by no means a given.

I am not aware of anything in Church teachings that places any moral value, positive or negative on the use of either pharmacological or surgical means to treat impotence; the moral value is derived from the circumstances: if one is correcting the impotence to facilitate marital relations, it would be morally good; if it is to have relations outside marriage, it is morally illicit.

>>> Why put an innocent child through that misery. GOD is merciful. What gives humans the right to over ride GOD. We should not override GOD's decision in any matter when it comes to reproduction.

God also gives us the ability to use various means to correct deficiencies in our health. We must, however, be caresul to use our abilities in accord with God's overall moral guidelines -- the natural law. This is where the Church fits in -- God has given her the responsibility and authority for interpreting and teaching His laws.

Feb 16th 2013 new

wave wave Hi Cindy! Welcome back! I'm glad to see you posting--love your sharp wit and direct approach! hug

Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Beverly-649723 said: Hi Cindy! Welcome back! I'm glad to see you posting--love your sharp wit and direct approac...
(Quote) Beverly-649723 said:

Hi Cindy! Welcome back! I'm glad to see you posting--love your sharp wit and direct approach!

--hide--


Thank you, Beverly!! wave

Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Carole-893801 said: I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Cat...
(Quote) Carole-893801 said:

I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Catholic teaching and God.


1)We all believe or asked to believe that abortion for what ever reason is against our teaching and church.
2) We all or are suppose to believe and practice ---NO premarital sex. Though I noticed that it is an option on this site.

If the above it true... Viagra also should be against Catholic believes and practice. God, whether directly or by medication is the one that chooses to make a man impotent. There maybe a very good reason God decided for the man to be impotent. His sperms maybe defective....Why put an innocent child through that misery. GOD is merciful. What gives humans the right to over ride GOD. We should not override GOD's decision in any matter when it comes to reproduction.
SEX is for reproduction and married couples. If sex in a marriage produces a handicapped child at least the child will have two loving parents. Handicapped children born by premarital sex are often raised solely by the mother since the father suddenly realizes that the church does not condone premarital sex.


What do other Catholic males or females think of the above. Agree or disagree and why?

--hide--

I don't follow your argument, actually. Premises (1) and (2) seem totally irrelevant to your argument.

Your argument seems to be that God is the only one who should make decisions with respect to reproduction. As far as I know, that is not a guiding priniciple of Catholic sexual ethics. More important is the principle that we should not go against God's design or intention. Contraception, for example, is not at all in accord with God's intention for human sexuality. But impotence is also not in accord with that. Male sex organs were not created to be impotent, of course. So, can't it be argued that Viagra and similar products are good things that can be used to correct the defect of impotence (only within the context of marriage, of course), just as we use medicines in general to treat human disease? Unless... you insist that God intends that men become impotent at some point as they grow older. That doesn't seem to square with Scripture, though, as Abraham and Sarah had Isaac in their old age.

I don't see that there is a pressing moral issue here, so I don't think the Church is going to make an official teaching on the morality of Viagra.

Feb 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Carole-893801 said: I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Cat...
(Quote) Carole-893801 said:

I believe the catholic church should make a decision on whether or not using viagra is again Catholic teaching and God.


1)We all believe or asked to believe that abortion for what ever reason is against our teaching and church.
2) We all or are suppose to believe and practice ---NO premarital sex. Though I noticed that it is an option on this site.

If the above it true... Viagra also should be against Catholic believes and practice. God, whether directly or by medication is the one that chooses to make a man impotent. There maybe a very good reason God decided for the man to be impotent. His sperms maybe defective....Why put an innocent child through that misery. GOD is merciful. What gives humans the right to over ride GOD. We should not override GOD's decision in any matter when it comes to reproduction.
SEX is for reproduction and married couples. If sex in a marriage produces a handicapped child at least the child will have two loving parents. Handicapped children born by premarital sex are often raised solely by the mother since the father suddenly realizes that the church does not condone premarital sex.


What do other Catholic males or females think of the above. Agree or disagree and why?

--hide--

Your conclusion does not follow from your premises (1) and (2).

Vigara, and similar drugs, are meant to allow men to engage in the marital act who otherwise might not succeed at it. In that sense, it is a medicine since it enables normal human activity. The Church does not disallow the use of ordinary medicines to restore human ability, so long as they are not directly generated by an evil activity (such as abortion, for instance).

The Church's no on artificial contraception arises from the fact that it distorts and destroys the true unity of the marital act by separating and closing the procreative aspect. Vigara, so far as I know, does no such thing.

Feb 17th 2013 new

Viagra was originally used for cardiac issues. Also some women are prescribed it as well. It is not just an elderly drug either, some men and women take other medicines that take that ability away and Viagra can help it back again. The marriage embrace is not just for procreation only. Then my husband and I would never have been made for one another. God made us social beings and gave us the beauty of making love to share ourselves and he made it feel good for a reason. Just my 2 cents. scratchchin Ice Skating

Feb 17th 2013 new

Keep in mind I am NOT against Viagra or Birth control ( not Abortion). Both topic are separate and not tied to each other. BUT interesting when viewed together.

Think about both matters seperately.....

Viagra has many medical purposes- agreed. AND it is important for married couples to have intimacy. (Even though I do know women that love their men no less because they are impotent.) I glad the church doesn't frown on Viagra.


That being said. If I already had 5-7+ children, as it truly was the norm in our parents or grandparents time. ...Just think back to your friends with many brothers and sisters OR to the church being full of children on Sundays.. (BEFORE Catholics used birth control) DO you think I would welcome intimacy with my husband? I would want but also fear intimacy. My husband may become impotent just from the stress of thinking about another mouth to feed!

I just want people to think about it and not be closed minded. AND AGAIN I am not talking about ABORTION.

I'm sure there will be those that will not agree, have an argument or even refuse to think about it. And that is fine.

Maybe we need a discussion of birth control options for catholics. That maybe helpful for the younger hopefully soon to be married members. If there is a forum already I apologize for suggesting one.

Also I have been told that this subject ( Viagra birth control) has been discussed at lenght already.... I couldn't find it when I searched. Maybe someone could be kind enough to tell me how I can search it in this site?
.

Feb 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Carole-893801 said: Keep in mind I am NOT against Viagra or Birth control ( not Abortion). Both topic are separate a...
(Quote) Carole-893801 said:

Keep in mind I am NOT against Viagra or Birth control ( not Abortion). Both topic are separate and not tied to each other. BUT interesting when viewed together.

Think about both matters seperately.....

Viagra has many medical purposes- agreed. AND it is important for married couples to have intimacy. (Even though I do know women that love their men no less because they are impotent.) I glad the church doesn't frown on Viagra.


That being said. If I already had 5-7+ children, as it truly was the norm in our parents or grandparents time. ...Just think back to your friends with many brothers and sisters OR to the church being full of children on Sundays.. (BEFORE Catholics used birth control) DO you think I would welcome intimacy with my husband? I would want but also fear intimacy. My husband may become impotent just from the stress of thinking about another mouth to feed!

I just want people to think about it and not be closed minded. AND AGAIN I am not talking about ABORTION.

I'm sure there will be those that will not agree, have an argument or even refuse to think about it. And that is fine.

Maybe we need a discussion of birth control options for catholics. That maybe helpful for the younger hopefully soon to be married members. If there is a forum already I apologize for suggesting one.

Also I have been told that this subject ( Viagra birth control) has been discussed at lenght already.... I couldn't find it when I searched. Maybe someone could be kind enough to tell me how I can search it in this site?
.

--hide--

Carole I do not think that there will ever be birth control options for Catholic marriage. The contraceptive intent is contrary to what we as Catholic believe is holy sexual expression within the context of marriage. Natural family planning with a contraceptive intent is also wrong. If you are ever open I would love to discuss this with you but it would even be better for you to discuss this with a priest. There are also many wise women in the pink room that I am sure would be willing to discuss this in detail with you. It is not about being open-minded but about acknowledging truth. When you begin to truly understand the intent and the awesomeness of God's plan for sexual expression in marriage these questions will be answered with clarity. I know that your questions stem out of a desire to learn so I am truly praying for God to give you the clarity that you seek. Keep seeking and you will find. God will not let you down. I am praying dear sister.

Feb 17th 2013 new

Thank-you Shara... You do seem to be a truly kind Catholic person. Since I no longer can reproduce I may let the subject drop.
My priest once told me..I must do what I think is best for my family and Myself. Do No Harm. That Is an important thing to remember.

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