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Feb 22nd 2013 new

A local church St John's , not my parish closed and was supposed to merge with mine Our Lady of Mt Carmel, they hired an attorney and the attorney has filed an appeal. so everything is in limbo and waiting on the decision.perhaps you can look into something like that.

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Bertha-811213 said: A local church St John's , not my parish closed and was supposed to merge with mine Our Lady...
(Quote) Bertha-811213 said:

A local church St John's , not my parish closed and was supposed to merge with mine Our Lady of Mt Carmel, they hired an attorney and the attorney has filed an appeal. so everything is in limbo and waiting on the decision.perhaps you can look into something like that.

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Yes, we had looked in to getting a canon lawyer but he wanted $10K right up front plus other money assurances, so that set us back for now ... We are sort of regrouping, I guess

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Feb 22nd 2013 new
(Quote) Richard-15378 said: The Archdiocese of Phila is closing my beautiful church, St. Donato's .. It is 103 years old, a classic It...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:

The Archdiocese of Phila is closing my beautiful church, St. Donato's .. It is 103 years old, a classic Italian throwback ... A magnificent 60 foot high Crucifixion scene behind the altar ... stained-glass windows with mosaics of the Good Shepherd, St.Michael the Archangel, the Nativity scene and so on ... We have a devoted congregation, with many of the older folks having known only this church ... St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, the first US citizen to be canonized, worshiped in our chapel ... We have appealed to the Archdiocese, but have been turned away and, honestly, at times have been treated rather rudely ... I must say that as sad as our closing makes me feel, I must admit to being even more hurt at the response (or lack of it) by the local Catholic hierarchy ... Yes,our numbers are down, but give us a year or so to try and boost attendance... We think we can do it, but they have to give us the chance ... All this has made me question whether I will continue to attend Mass if they close us .. Never thought I would ever say or do that, but this is very disheartening ... It seems like the way Jesus laid down, respect for all people, is not being adhered to ... If anyone else has experienced this, with their church closing, I'd love to hear your reaction ... I feel lost and my spirit is broken by it all ... I am trying to keep separate the wonderful teachings of our religion from the decisions made by men, but it is hard to keep focused in the light of this emotional pain ... Why can't they respect our legacy and give us a chance????

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Oh Richard,

I have tears in my eyes as I read this. My beautiful church was also closed 5 years ago by the Archdiocese of New York for no good reason. We were vibrant, active church. Our enrollment was steadily increasing, we had the largest and strongest Catholic church run youth ministry in the city, and my church was TOTALLY SELF SUPPORTING. Sorry, I am not shouting, I just want the emphasize that we were not a finacially failing church. The ONLY reason they closed our church was to take advantage of the astouding real estate market. At the time, the property was worth 80 million dollars. I can go on and on about how active my church was and how unjust and divisive the archdiocese administrators were, but people who have not experienced it just wouldn't believe me. People refuse to believe that our church administrators are capable of acting in such bad faith, but they can.

Richard, I am so sorry this happened to you. I feel your pain. Many of our most devout parishioners left the Catholic faith when our church was closed. Among them my best friend. She said she can't be part of a church that would hurt it's people so much.

But Richard, you must find a way to keep your faith strong and to separate the faith from the administration. People can always fail us, but God will not. The Catholic faith is the most beautiful and perfect faith and that's what you have to hold on to. Where else can you find the most perfect Blessed Sacrament? Nowhere

I would be happy to discuss this further with you privately since I have gone through it and know how you feel. I will be praying for you.

Josephine
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Feb 22nd 2013 new

Bummer!

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Feb 22nd 2013 new
(Quote) Richard-15378 said: Yes, we had looked in to getting a canon lawyer but he wanted $10K right up front plus other money ass...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:



Yes, we had looked in to getting a canon lawyer but he wanted $10K right up front plus other money assurances, so that set us back for now ... We are sort of regrouping, I guess

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Richard and Bertha,

I'm sorry to say but the chances of successfully fighting the archdiocese and winning are extremely slim. You would have to find a serious procedural error, and even if you do, all they have to do is correct the error and close your church again. The cardinal/bishop who heads your archdiocese is given autonomy to use their discresion in these matters. Cardinals/bishops do not go against each other and the Vatican rarely goes against them either.
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Feb 22nd 2013 new
(Quote) Richard-15378 said: Yes, we had looked in to getting a canon lawyer but he wanted $10K right up front plus other money ass...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:



Yes, we had looked in to getting a canon lawyer but he wanted $10K right up front plus other money assurances, so that set us back for now ... We are sort of regrouping, I guess

--hide--


The only thing I would recommend right now is to get in the public eye and use the media to raise awareness. Use the news, facebook and any and every social network you can. A public outcry of very large proportions can help.
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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: Oh Richard, I have tears in my eyes as I read this. My beautiful church was also clo...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

Oh Richard,

I have tears in my eyes as I read this. My beautiful church was also closed 5 years ago by the Archdiocese of New York for no good reason. We were vibrant, active church. Our enrollment was steadily increasing, we had the largest and strongest Catholic church run youth ministry in the city, and my church was TOTALLY SELF SUPPORTING. Sorry, I am not shouting, I just want the emphasize that we were not a finacially failing church. The ONLY reason they closed our church was to take advantage of the astouding real estate market. At the time, the property was worth 80 million dollars. I can go on and on about how active my church was and how unjust and divisive the archdiocese administrators were, but people who have not experienced it just wouldn't believe me. People refuse to believe that our church administrators are capable of acting in such bad faith, but they can.

Richard, I am so sorry this happened to you. I feel your pain. Many of our most devout parishioners left the Catholic faith when our church was closed. Among them my best friend. She said she can't be part of a church that would hurt it's people so much.

But Richard, you must find a way to keep your faith strong and to separate the faith from the administration. People can always fail us, but God will not. The Catholic faith is the most beautiful and perfect faith and that's what you have to hold on to. Where else can you find the most perfect Blessed Sacrament? Nowhere

I would be happy to discuss this further with you privately since I have gone through it and know how you feel. I will be praying for you.

Josephine
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Josephine, thank you for your empathetic remarks ... I am so sorry to hear that happened to you and your church ... Who can understand these mind-boggling decisions??? .. You know, the only person in the Church who is infallible is the Pope, and that is ONLY WHEN he is ruling in matters of faith and morals .. Which means these administrators are as infallible as me when it comes to making what in essence are business decisions ... I wrote a very respectful four-page letter to our Archbishop, who in turn had a monsignor respond to me .. His reply was so one-sided and distorted, tellling me I "needed to understand," that our parishioners in effect are just too emotional (isn't emotion a big part of faith and religion???). that we don't have enough baptisms as the nearby church (ridiculous point ... it will take 20 years for those baptized to be an adult force in the church) and so on ... Again, the lack of respect afforded our people is so disheartening ... I say it's a good thing my mother is dead, otherwise if she was alive today this would kill her!!

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: The only thing I would recommend right now is to get in the public eye and use the media to ...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

The only thing I would recommend right now is to get in the public eye and use the media to raise awareness. Use the news, facebook and any and every social network you can. A public outcry of very large proportions can help.
--hide--


Yes, we have already had some media coverage ...this coming Sunday is our "last Mass as a parish." as they are merging us with another church (none of our people will go there) ...they are going to keep us open for 10 months or so as a "worship site" but who knows how long that will actually be ... I have some media background and we have others who are media-savvy as well, but we are tryng to mobilize and see what we need to do to try and get things changed ...

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Feb 22nd 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: Richard and Bertha, I'm sorry to say but the chances of successfully fighting th...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

Richard and Bertha,

I'm sorry to say but the chances of successfully fighting the archdiocese and winning are extremely slim. You would have to find a serious procedural error, and even if you do, all they have to do is correct the error and close your church again. The cardinal/bishop who heads your archdiocese is given autonomy to use their discresion in these matters. Cardinals/bishops do not go against each other and the Vatican rarely goes against them either.
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You are definitely right on about that ... I wasn't too keen on the lawyerly approch but some of our folks wanted to give it a look ... You're right, even if they didn't let the process run its required length of time, so what, they would just run around and say Ok, you have 3 more months ...when the 3 months are up, boom , now you are officially done ...just a formality

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Feb 22nd 2013 new
(Quote) Richard-15378 said: Josephine, thank you for your empathetic remarks ... I am so sorry to hear that happened to you and yo...
(Quote) Richard-15378 said:



Josephine, thank you for your empathetic remarks ... I am so sorry to hear that happened to you and your church ... Who can understand these mind-boggling decisions??? .. You know, the only person in the Church who is infallible is the Pope, and that is ONLY WHEN he is ruling in matters of faith and morals .. Which means these administrators are as infallible as me when it comes to making what in essence are business decisions ... I wrote a very respectful four-page letter to our Archbishop, who in turn had a monsignor respond to me .. His reply was so one-sided and distorted, tellling me I "needed to understand," that our parishioners in effect are just too emotional (isn't emotion a big part of faith and religion???). that we don't have enough baptisms as the nearby church (ridiculous point ... it will take 20 years for those baptized to be an adult force in the church) and so on ... Again, the lack of respect afforded our people is so disheartening ... I say it's a good thing my mother is dead, otherwise if she was alive today this would kill her!!

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Sacramentals are going down everywhere. I don't know about the Archdiocese of Philladelphia, but I would like the Archdioces of New York to tell me of one church here which has increasing sacramentals? It's not about sacramentals, ist's about $$$$$$$$. Every Catholic should be advised- make sure your Church is self supporting and making a loooooooot of money for the Archdiocese or you can be next.

As part of our Archdiocese appeal process (the sham), we had to submit a business plan. A priest I consulted with, who was familiar with business plans, told me that we had to have a strong business plan that was going to make money. Do you have to do something like that for your Archdioces appeal, because I can give you some ideas. I just googled you church and it seems that you just got your notice a few weeks ago(correct me if I am wrong). Did you send your first letter of appeal to the Archdiocese? I think you have something like 15 days from the announceent to do so, but if could be different from Archdiocese to Archdiocese. Any announcement- at the mass homily, a newspaper report or any form of public statement is considered the announcement.
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