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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

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Mar 3rd 2013 new
Hi Richard, I am sorry to hear about the closing of your church. I hope you don't give up your faith. Do you know what the Archdiocese plans to do with the building? In my town in New Jersey, we had 80 % of the homes flooded, we all lost out cars, our church, rectory, classrooms and offices were all destroyed by Hurricane Sandy. Our pastor lost his fight against Cancer and died after the hurricane. We are now having our masses in the auditorium. This building had 4-5 ft. of water and raw sewage. I am grateful that our parish, now has Mass. While it's hard to trust in God, I think it's the right thing to do. You might want to gather the parishioners who are left and see where they are going to make their new parish. You could contact the new place and find out if they shared the same novenas, prayer services, events as your parish; maybe your group will activate something that's needed in that parish. Maybe God needs your group there. I think it's well known that God works in strange ways. Pray upon it before you do anything else. God needs you in his church. Pat
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Mar 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: The religious leaders of the church are causing the scandals, not the laity who are speaking...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

The religious leaders of the church are causing the scandals, not the laity who are speaking out. I see how out of touch you are so I will not argue further.

I will instead pray for you.
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"The four corner stones of Christian life are humility, obedience, charity, and faith. Of these, humility is the most important since without it one will not be able to sustain the others.

The first thing people should be doing is praying that the Lord's will, not ours, be done in these matters."



The laity who speak out if doing so public, in forums, or by gossip are indeed causing scandal...there are proper channels....while I appreciate prayer, I think in this case it is misguided or the intent of the comment is not completely holy.

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Mar 3rd 2013 new
(Quote) Sean-851370 said: I think that the scandal of the laymen is that they haven't done enough to push back against the...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:




I think that the scandal of the laymen is that they haven't done enough to push back against the moral collapse of the Church. Here in town we had people who thought the closings were wrong but refused to do something to stop them. The Church needs the laity to step in and say to the priests, religious, etc. "stop what you're doing!" Laymen paid for the construction of churches, schools, convents and rectories. People need to use their minds instead of blindly relying on what a priest or religious tells them.

--hide--


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
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Mar 3rd 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-814070 said: Hi Richard, I am sorry to hear about the closing of your church. I hope you don't give up your fa...
(Quote) Patricia-814070 said: Hi Richard, I am sorry to hear about the closing of your church. I hope you don't give up your faith. Do you know what the Archdiocese plans to do with the building? In my town in New Jersey, we had 80 % of the homes flooded, we all lost out cars, our church, rectory, classrooms and offices were all destroyed by Hurricane Sandy. Our pastor lost his fight against Cancer and died after the hurricane. We are now having our masses in the auditorium. This building had 4-5 ft. of water and raw sewage. I am grateful that our parish, now has Mass. While it's hard to trust in God, I think it's the right thing to do. You might want to gather the parishioners who are left and see where they are going to make their new parish. You could contact the new place and find out if they shared the same novenas, prayer services, events as your parish; maybe your group will activate something that's needed in that parish. Maybe God needs your group there. I think it's well known that God works in strange ways. Pray upon it before you do anything else. God needs you in his church. Pat
--hide--


Hi Patricia

So sorry to hear of all that happened to your church ... I know all the folks in Sandy's path have so much to deal with ... Hang in there ...

Actually, our church will stay open until December, but they are going to gradually cut our 3 weekend Masses down to 2 and then to 1 ... Our last day is to be the first Sunday of Advent, December 1 .... There is a church that we are being "merged" with, but none of our folks will be going there due to the distance and some other things ... So, don't know what will happen .. This is uncharted territtory for us al ...

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Mar 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: "The four corner stones of Christian life are humility, obedience, charity, and...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:




"The four corner stones of Christian life are humility, obedience, charity, and faith. Of these, humility is the most important since without it one will not be able to sustain the others.

The first thing people should be doing is praying that the Lord's will, not ours, be done in these matters."



The laity who speak out if doing so public, in forums, or by gossip are indeed causing scandal...there are proper channels....while I appreciate prayer, I think in this case it is misguided or the intent of the comment is not completely holy.

--hide--




"Scandal" is anything a bad pastor, religious or Church-employed layman doesn't like.

Priest blows money tearing down perfectly good structures. That's not a scandal but criticizing the priest's actions is.


Nuns close girls' school after parents spend a fortune supporting that school. The nuns don't create a scandal but the parents' criticisms do.


The moral of the story is that those in charge can do whatever they want. And if any layman or even priest dares to criticize them, that person is damned to hell!

LOCKED
Mar 5th 2013 new

I know that Philadelphia has incurred a great many lawsuits. And what people in America don't understand is when they sue the church...it is the lay people, the devout that suffer. I feel for you greatly. One thing came to my mind. And I hope you don't think that I'm trying to opportunize on your misfortune. There are so many places in America that need a good church building. I live near Joplin, MO. The tornado destroyed St. Mary's(although it was modern and hideous). They will have to rebuild. They want a traditional church now. But perhaps all of the beautiful artwork in your church could find a new home. You would be in essence building a brand new church for people who might not have one. I know church artwork is moved all the time. I don't know what the expense would be. But if I were told about a project like that, I would jump at the chance to make sure something was preserved and to donate as much as I could. And if I belonged to the church that received it I would certainly consider making a plaque or a special devotion area in honor of the members of the church that closed. In essence, even though the church isn't there, the members of it would live on in a new location. Maybe there are country churches being built outside of the Philadelphia area that need statues. Now my suggestion is for if there is nothing left to be done and it must be closed. Perhaps you could suggest it to the priest. I've learned from the members at St. Mary's in Joplin that to commission a new statue of Mary and Joseph is going to be expensive. It would be much easier to pay for the transfer of existing statues that will probably either be sold or stored.

LOCKED
Mar 5th 2013 new

I know that Philadelphia has incurred a great many lawsuits. And what people in America don't understand is when they sue the church...it is the lay people, the devout that suffer. I feel for you greatly. One thing came to my mind. And I hope you don't think that I'm trying to opportunize on your misfortune. There are so many places in America that need a good church building. I live near Joplin, MO. The tornado destroyed St. Mary's(although it was modern and hideous). They will have to rebuild. They want a traditional church now. But perhaps all of the beautiful artwork in your church could find a new home. You would be in essence building a brand new church for people who might not have one. I know church artwork is moved all the time. I don't know what the expense would be. But if I were told about a project like that, I would jump at the chance to make sure something was preserved and to donate as much as I could. And if I belonged to the church that received it I would certainly consider making a plaque or a special devotion area in honor of the members of the church that closed. In essence, even though the church isn't there, the members of it would live on in a new location. Maybe there are country churches being built outside of the Philadelphia area that need statues. Now my suggestion is for if there is nothing left to be done and it must be closed. Perhaps you could suggest it to the priest. I've learned from the members at St. Mary's in Joplin that to commission a new statue of Mary and Joseph is going to be expensive. It would be much easier to pay for the transfer of existing statues that will probably either be sold or stored.

LOCKED
Mar 5th 2013 new

I know that Philadelphia has incurred a great many lawsuits. And what people in America don't understand is when they sue the church...it is the lay people, the devout that suffer. I feel for you greatly. One thing came to my mind. And I hope you don't think that I'm trying to opportunize on your misfortune. There are so many places in America that need a good church building. I live near Joplin, MO. The tornado destroyed St. Mary's(although it was modern and hideous). They will have to rebuild. They want a traditional church now. But perhaps all of the beautiful artwork in your church could find a new home. You would be in essence building a brand new church for people who might not have one. I know church artwork is moved all the time. I don't know what the expense would be. But if I were told about a project like that, I would jump at the chance to make sure something was preserved and to donate as much as I could. And if I belonged to the church that received it I would certainly consider making a plaque or a special devotion area in honor of the members of the church that closed. In essence, even though the church isn't there, the members of it would live on in a new location. Maybe there are country churches being built outside of the Philadelphia area that need statues. Now my suggestion is for if there is nothing left to be done and it must be closed. Perhaps you could suggest it to the priest. I've learned from the members at St. Mary's in Joplin that to commission a new statue of Mary and Joseph is going to be expensive. It would be much easier to pay for the transfer of existing statues that will probably either be sold or stored.

LOCKED
Mar 5th 2013 new

The pastor who closed/merged the parishes in our town wanted to donate pews, windows and whatnot to congregations in Eastern Europe. Isn't it great to be charitable with the items other people worked hard to pay for? Not too long ago, many of the Roman collars threw a great number of statues and altars into the trash, probably laughing at the stupid Catholics who paid for those works of art.


Sorry to be cynical about the Church, but I've seen too much of the "generosity" of Church leaders.



(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: I know that Philadelphia has incurred a great many lawsuits. And what people in America don'...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said:

I know that Philadelphia has incurred a great many lawsuits. And what people in America don't understand is when they sue the church...it is the lay people, the devout that suffer. I feel for you greatly. One thing came to my mind. And I hope you don't think that I'm trying to opportunize on your misfortune. There are so many places in America that need a good church building. I live near Joplin, MO. The tornado destroyed St. Mary's(although it was modern and hideous). They will have to rebuild. They want a traditional church now. But perhaps all of the beautiful artwork in your church could find a new home. You would be in essence building a brand new church for people who might not have one. I know church artwork is moved all the time. I don't know what the expense would be. But if I were told about a project like that, I would jump at the chance to make sure something was preserved and to donate as much as I could. And if I belonged to the church that received it I would certainly consider making a plaque or a special devotion area in honor of the members of the church that closed. In essence, even though the church isn't there, the members of it would live on in a new location. Maybe there are country churches being built outside of the Philadelphia area that need statues. Now my suggestion is for if there is nothing left to be done and it must be closed. Perhaps you could suggest it to the priest. I've learned from the members at St. Mary's in Joplin that to commission a new statue of Mary and Joseph is going to be expensive. It would be much easier to pay for the transfer of existing statues that will probably either be sold or stored.

--hide--

LOCKED
Mar 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: "Scandal" is anything a bad pastor, religious or Church-employed layman ...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:





"Scandal" is anything a bad pastor, religious or Church-employed layman doesn't like.

Priest blows money tearing down perfectly good structures. That's not a scandal but criticizing the priest's actions is.


Nuns close girls' school after parents spend a fortune supporting that school. The nuns don't create a scandal but the parents' criticisms do.


The moral of the story is that those in charge can do whatever they want. And if any layman or even priest dares to criticize them, that person is damned to hell!

--hide--
Sean,

You sound awfully bitter. Remember if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem You can through the proper channels request that the church remain open...I never said you couldn't. I even said that I once wrote my own letter regarding an issue. All that I have ever said is that I draw the line at involving the secular media into our Church issues. They don't understand and will twist it and make it look like our Church is bad and we have loss enough sheep. Those sheep don't understand either that the decisions made at the top are not the sacraments. I also said that I'm in agreement with other posters who have said that while we sympathize with the OP and it is sad, we also understand the reasons this might be happening.

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