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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Feb 24th 2013 new
(Quote) Jan-672216 said: + It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult t...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:




+




It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to understand. I muse in my mind sometimes, wondering, trying to understand. I'm not stating the following as fact - just one of my wonderings: The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful (and I believe that they are). People in the Church have also taught that there are two life vocations to choose from: the married vocation, or religious life. What is a Catholic to do who suffers with same sex attraction? Especially if to admit thier inclination will most likely ostrasize them from loved ones? I am aware of Courage - a great group I'm sure. But pre-Courage - what did people do? It appears that more than a few entered religious life.




An Eastern Orthodox priest I knew (who converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy way before the clergy sexual abuse scandals broke) said he believed that if the Catholic Church allowed their priests to marry they would attract more manly men. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have not heard of this problem (pedophilia or epedophilia) being this rampant in the Orthodox churches - or teh Protestant communities for that matter. Perhpas he had a point.




The problem now is - what else can we do but educate ourselves and pray? A friend reminded me today that this is Christ's Church and we have Our Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints to intercede for us - but this is still very difficult. I commented that it is amazing that anyone comes into the Church today with all of this going on (not excluding awareness of my own personal unholiness in the limited circle of people whose lives I touch) and my friend replied exact evidence that this IS Christ's Church - people ARE still coming into the Church - God is still pouring out the grace souls need through His Church to bring us Home, and He will give us an answer to this crisis.

--hide--


My only thought is that homosexuals use the cloak of having unmarried clergy to camouflage themselves. An orthodox married priesthood is intrinsically heterosexual and less accepting of homosexuals theoretically.
Feb 24th 2013 new
(Quote) Jan-672216 said: Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church i...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:






Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults" but, truly, I have never once heard of this problem in Orthodox Churches.

--hide--


There have been instances of problems with gay clergy in Orthodox monasteries. www.pokrov.org
Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: And I have never heard of this problem in the Protestant communities - not of the magn...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:


And I have never heard of this problem in the Protestant communities - not of the magnitude we have seen in worldwide in the Catholic Church.

--hide--



The Protestant communities are full of homesexual and lesbian ministers. They are openly gay actually.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: + It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to ...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:


+


It is a difficult topic to approach Marianne. It's also difficult to understand. I muse in my mind sometimes, wondering, trying to understand. I'm not stating the following as fact - just one of my wonderings: The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful (and I believe that they are). People in the Church have also taught that there are two life vocations to choose from: the married vocation, or religious life. What is a Catholic to do who suffers with same sex attraction? Especially if to admit thier inclination will most likely ostrasize them from loved ones? I am aware of Courage - a great group I'm sure. But pre-Courage - what did people do? It appears that more than a few entered religious life.


An Eastern Orthodox priest I knew (who converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy way before the clergy sexual abuse scandals broke) said he believed that if the Catholic Church allowed their priests to marry they would attract more manly men. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I have not heard of this problem (pedophilia or epedophilia) being this rampant in the Orthodox churches - or teh Protestant communities for that matter. Perhpas he had a point.


The problem now is - what else can we do but educate ourselves and pray? A friend reminded me today that this is Christ's Church and we have Our Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints to intercede for us - but this is still very difficult. I commented that it is amazing that anyone comes into the Church today with all of this going on (not excluding awareness of my own personal unholiness in the limited circle of people whose lives I touch) and my friend replied exact evidence that this IS Christ's Church - people ARE still coming into the Church - God is still pouring out the grace souls need through His Church to bring us Home, and He will give us an answer to this crisis.

--hide--


Truthfully, I did not know that in the past either you married or you went into the clergy or nunhood. That would make
sense because how else would a single person be taken care of.

The church not only has to worry about gay priests, but straight priests also are promiscuous and get in trouble.
Sex for priests is a no no, no matter what the persuasion. I wonder why they make so many distinctions, when
it is NOT allowed on any basis. There is no reason to sort out the nuances. It is wrong.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: There have been instances of problems with gay clergy in Orthodox monasteries. http://www.pokrov....
(Quote) John-220051 said:

There have been instances of problems with gay clergy in Orthodox monasteries. www.pokrov.org
--hide--

This would make sense in that Orthodox priests in monasteries are not allowed to marry.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: The Protestant communities are full of homesexual and lesbian ministers. They are ...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:




The Protestant communities are full of homesexual and lesbian ministers. They are openly gay actually.

--hide--

Marianne this is true - I hadn't thought about this.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Truthfully, I did not know that in the past either you married or you went into the cl...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



Truthfully, I did not know that in the past either you married or you went into the clergy or nunhood. That would make
sense because how else would a single person be taken care of.

The church not only has to worry about gay priests, but straight priests also are promiscuous and get in trouble.
Sex for priests is a no no, no matter what the persuasion. I wonder why they make so many distinctions, when
it is NOT allowed on any basis. There is no reason to sort out the nuances. It is wrong.

--hide--

Marianne what I have heard is that it has been presented to people, and some still do follow this line of thinking, that there are primarily two states of life - two vocations - people can be called to - the married life, or the religious life. In the past there has not been much acceptance of a "vocation" to the single life.

While I have heard about some priests erring by having an adult heterosexual affair, I have not heard about it on the level we are hearing about the homosexual crisis.

And, again, I wonder if it is not a case for the Church to look at allowing our priests to marry again? Eastern Orthodox priests are REQUIRED to be married before being assigned to a parish. The only Orthodox priests that do not marry are those who enter the monastic life. We allow our Eastern Rite Catholic priests to marry. It is not a definitive doctrine of the Church that our priests cannot marry. It just seems to me, given what we have seen in the Church around the world with the abuse scandals that it might be a prudent thing for the Church to take a look at again.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: Paul - did you read this article? Am curious to know what you think of it: ww...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:


Paul - did you read this article? Am curious to know what you think of it: http://www.churchmilitant.tv



--hide--

I did read it and found it interesting

It pretty well confirmed what I had suspected when the first stories started circulating about the abuse here.

I note that you question my statements about the frequency of the problem in other religions. If I could remember, I would refer you to the actualy sources. But do a diligent search and you will find them.

One thing we need to keep in mind, aside from the scandal itself, is the fact that it is being used by enemies of the Church to try and destroy the Church. So as bad as th4e scandal is, it is blown totally out of proportion towards that end.

Although it is true that our Church has, until recently, generally prospered here, this country has not been overly friendly to the Church since its founding. When major migrations from Catholic Europe took place, the anti-Catholicism became markedly overt.

The coming to maturity of the 60's and 70's generation, the most destructive in history, and their "if it feels good do it", mentality; their destruction of all standards of human conduct supposedly because of the hypocrisy of the previous generations; and their hedonistic life style; found only one institution standing in the way and preaching the sinfulness of all of it. Hence the need to destroy the Church.

In the late middle ages, a general collapse within the Church; i.e the selling of indulgences and all the other of Luther's 99 points led to the Reformationm. After the reformation, scandals withing the Church were generally local in nature and peculiar to a particular society; for example the Magdalene houses for wayward women in Ireland.

The 60's and 70's, was not so much a breakdown within the Church. But it was and is a breakdown in society in general and world wide in scope. Naturally it infected the laity in every religion. Add to that things peculiar to any given country for example, the draft dodgers in the US who sought out every means to escape the mandatory call to serve our country, and you had a natural recipe for disaster.

It is an old axiom, " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." The lowering of educational standards is a world wide phenomena. What results is adults in general with many degrees who are trained like human computers, able to spout one unrelated fact after another with absolutely no ability to apply rational thought and critical thinking to create anything worth while from all those memorized facts.

Hence we see, supposedly educated people who believe and or weave all kinds of conspiracy theories. We see examples of that in these forums. For example, Pope Benedict did not resign because he felt he was getting to old and feeble physically and mentally to effectively lead the Church but it must be because some cabal within the Vatican has forced this. Whether that cabal is composed of homosexuals, liberals, Conservatives, Masons, Satanists, etc. doesn't matter. The only thing that does matter is that there must be a conspiracy because reality is too simple.

Feb 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Jan-672216 said: Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church is...
(Quote) Jan-672216 said:


Also, I have heard it stated before that "the incidence in the Church is lower than in society in general; lower than in most other churches, substantially lower than in the public schools and other organizations where the young are in direct contact with adults" but, truly, I have never once heard of this problem in Orthodox Churches.

--hide--

It's there, but Orthodox Churches, in and outside of communion with the Catholic Church, have a much lower profile than the Latin Rite Church, and thus aren't targeted for attack by the media as the Church is.

Feb 24th 2013 new
A couple of days ago I watched a program on this issue on a cable channel. Usually I don't watch much TV at all, but this program was striking and held my interest.

It featured a priest who oversaw a Catholic school for the deaf in the USA in the 1960's; it was a boarding school. The children were sent there to learn how to sign and communicate with the outside world.

There was a well-liked priest there who had the consistent habit of visiting the most vulnerable boys, (those whose parents did not sign), at night while they were sleeping. There were MANY witnesses to that effect, but nothing was done about it even though the boys complained and reported to adults what was happening.

Luckily, the Lord God granted several of these boys the self-esteem sufficient to begin a campaign to remove the demon priest.

My heart went out to these now grown-up men. They were so brave to do what was clearly the right thing to do, even though they were children at the time. They were thinking of other younger deaf boys, and how they should be able to attend school without fear! VERY BRAVE AND THOUGHTFUL FOR OTHERS!

As adults, one of these men found and confronted the demon priest, who had abused him and others repeatedly while he was a student at the deaf school, and told him, "You go to prison NOW!!!!" It was very striking to hear a deaf man using his voice with that kind of intensity.

I do believe that once it can be proven that a cleric has moved to such horrific acts, no doubt, he should be removed from the priesthood, and handed over to the secular courts for trial, as any other criminal would be treated. Once sunk to such horrific low behavior, he is no longer a person of God; but a demon to be set apart from others.

It is true that the Catholic church is a sitting duck for false claims, and our enemies would try to bring us down, but if there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, that these types of things are happening, they must be addressed, or face losing the faith to poor judgement regarding the lay.
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