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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Brenda-444789 said: John, I'm not sure if I would have been as concerned about marrying a workaholic back in my ...
(Quote) Brenda-444789 said:

John, I'm not sure if I would have been as concerned about marrying a workaholic back in my younger days as I understand what it takes to get a successful, life long career off on a proper start. Naturally, even back then, especially once the children began to appear on the scene, I would have sincerely wanted my husband to be around and be involved in his children's lives, especially as children don't stay little very long and those relationships just never really develop if they are put off until later.


As it is right now, yes - I look at that a bit more closely. The way I see it, the most hectic phases of my life are behind me (at least I certainly hope so) and I now have the luxury of not having to work all the time. I may be way too young to really feel that I can completely retire, but my time is more now my own. I have time to not only work a part time job (which I have a passion for and gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I make a real difference in people's lives), do some volunteer work with the church and CSS and still have enough discretionary time left to fill doing things I enjoy. (In other words; time to play or relax, time for hobbies, travel and family.) Sure, I can do all these things on my own and I have no problem with that, but why would I want to go to the trouble of finding my soul-mate and the one man I can't live without only to find he's too busy with his work to spend some of his time with me? Mind you, I'm not the clingy sort or someone who needs to be entertained but I want someone that I can actually get out and enjoy life with, nurture and simply 'be' with. If that fellow was always going to be at gone due to some obsession with his work, what would I have gained by marrying him?


I guess I also wonder about a man who feels they 'have something to prove', by our age. He should have already been long on his way, if not already there. Hopefully, by this time, both parties have found measures of peace, happiness and contentment and no longer feel so driven toward things of this world. It's time we best begin to buckle down even harder and if we must work so hard - let it be to help each other to get to the kingdom of heaven!

--hide--
Hi Brenda,

Yours was a very interesting reply with a lot of detail about the what, the when , the how and the why. I'm not an editor or a writer, but I'd also say that it was written very well and easy to follow given all the details.

I think that your words, I want someone that I can ... simply 'be' with are central. The workaholic may unconsciously not be able to sense that he is doing anything for your unless it involves a lot of activity and exertion, which tends to remove from you the personal presence that you really want.

For those men who are simply not good communicators, it may be very awkward to be in the presence of a woman who is looking for his personal presence in relaxed communication and he may actually stay at work long hours to avoid this.

John

Mar 9th 2013 new

HI John,

This is a good question. And, to be honest I think it partly depends upon the people involved. Pete and I married on a Friday, the following Monday he was gone for three weeks. Throughout our marriage he was often gone either working long hours or out of town because of work. I never not once complained about his lack of being there because I knew for him it was integral to his sense of self worth to be able to provide well for his family and to work hard. He never however abused this. If he was at work, he was at work. None of this, I've got to work late or have a meeting and really being somewhere else. He did occasionally call and ask if I minded if he went out with his co-workers for a beer or dinner and I never had an issue with it. I took care of pretty much everything else, but when he was home he was very hands on with the kiddos and they would run out the front door to greet him when he made it home. We made plans for family activiities and holidays. We would spend hours on the porch in the summer just talking and some nights just laying in bed talking about everything.

We had our kiddos young and close together so they would be grown by the time we were the age I am now. In about 2000 he started urging me to go back to school, I finally did in 2002. We had decided that when I finished school, he would retire and we would go wherever my career took us. He would take some classes he wanted to take and either volunteer or do some work he found interesting. We never got that opportunity. I will complete the PhD in the next year or so and Pete was killed last April doing his job. It saddens me that he worked so very hard all these years, sacrificing many things to do so and will not get the chance to take that heat and air class he wanted to take. But, I am so very blessed to have had him. And, don't get me wrong, he had his faults lol.

When he had to work late, I would wait up to make sure he had a hot meal. He used to always urge me to just go to bed, so I wouldn't be tired the next day, but I thought if he was sacrificing so could I and I wanted him to know I appreciated his sacrifice and hard work. I overheard him a few years ago talking to our son and he mentioned that and told our son that it was one of the things that really made him feel loved, despite being irritated that I wouldn't listen to his concern about me getting enough rest, lol.

When I do complete the PhD I will have many decisions to make and I may very well have to face this in the future with someone, who will most probably also have their own career. But, I do believe it can be managed.

Mar 9th 2013 new

My career encompasses, of necessity, travel. My late husband was already retired - and it was of no moment to him ever that we lived on the road. Wouldn't have had it any other way. His concept was that the spouse that was still earning a living dictated where the other one lived. So for us, a non-issue. While I understand that is not normal with most people's standards - it was normal for us. Isn't that a part of marriage?

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: Hi Brenda, Yours was a very interesting reply with a lot of detail about the what, the when...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

Hi Brenda,

Yours was a very interesting reply with a lot of detail about the what, the when , the how and the why. I'm not an editor or a writer, but I'd also say that it was written very well and easy to follow given all the details.

I think that your words, I want someone that I can ... simply 'be' with are central. The workaholic may unconsciously not be able to sense that he is doing anything for your unless it involves a lot of activity and exertion, which tends to remove from you the personal presence that you really want.

For those men who are simply not good communicators, it may be very awkward to be in the presence of a woman who is looking for his personal presence in relaxed communication and he may actually stay at work long hours to avoid this.

John

--hide--

Hello again, John. I'm slightly puzzled by part of your response to my post. How does my stating that I want someone 'that I can simply be with' scare off a man who may not be highly communicative? I thought, if anything, it would elude to the fact that I didn't need or necessarily want to be entertained or stimulated 24/7. As anyone who has seen my profile has no doubt noticed, I am indeed an extrovert and of at least reasonable intelligence and I will admit that I appreciate people with whom I can enjoy a good conversation. That being said; I tend to expend a great deal of my energies when I'm out at work, volunteering or socializing. I view my home and family as a delightful retreat where I don't have to juggle multiple personalities, issues and tasks - a place where I can wind down, relax and recharge my batteries. Frankly, when I said that I would simply like somebody to be with, I was picturing another lump on the sofa, someone across the dinner table or someone to snuggle under the covers, spoon and indulge in some end of day pillow talk with. The last thing I need at the end of every day (perhaps on occasion, pertaining to the hot topic of the day's news or something would be all right) is some in depth debate or discussion. I just want to 'chill', as they say. surfing

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Brenda-444789 said: Hello again, John. I'm slightly puzzled by part of your response to my post. How do...
(Quote) Brenda-444789 said:

Hello again, John. I'm slightly puzzled by part of your response to my post. How does my stating that I want someone 'that I can simply be with' scare off a man who may not be highly communicative? I thought, if anything, it would elude to the fact that I didn't need or necessarily want to be entertained or stimulated 24/7. As anyone who has seen my profile has no doubt noticed, I am indeed an extrovert and of at least reasonable intelligence and I will admit that I appreciate people with whom I can enjoy a good conversation. That being said; I tend to expend a great deal of my energies when I'm out at work, volunteering or socializing. I view my home and family as a delightful retreat where I don't have to juggle multiple personalities, issues and tasks - a place where I can wind down, relax and recharge my batteries. Frankly, when I said that I would simply like somebody to be with, I was picturing another lump on the sofa, someone across the dinner table or someone to snuggle under the covers, spoon and indulge in some end of day pillow talk with. The last thing I need at the end of every day (perhaps on occasion, pertaining to the hot topic of the day's news or something would be all right) is some in depth debate or discussion. I just want to 'chill', as they say.

--hide--

good post.

I see our generation enamored with careers. Many men and women are in apartments and dating other young professionals that live either in condos or apartments, but are delaying marriage due to career uncertainty. Or they are unemployed/underemployed and living with their parents.

In the '90s 20s and 30s could go get jobs anywhere as well as apartments. The economy was roaring then.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Lisa-54615 said: I can't say that I have a real "career" - what I have is a job. I like my job, but th...
(Quote) Lisa-54615 said:

I can't say that I have a real "career" - what I have is a job. I like my job, but there is certainly no risk of it coming before my husband. I would expect for my husband to have more of a "career" though - if I were to marry someone with merely a "job", we would both be broke.

I understand that sometimes a cereer can be demanding and require longer than normal work days and some travel. I admit that I wasn't as supportive of my ex-husband's career as I should have been - I was in my early 20s and pretty clingy back then. I'm not that way anymore. I wouldn't have a problem with a man pursuing his career, but still up to a certain extent. Working a few extra hours a week (for example, 10 hour days instead of 8) is fine, if that's what he wanted to do. Occasional business trips are fine. But traveling 50% of the time or working from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to sleep is too much. Why get married at all then? I have a co-worker who lives here in San Diego, and her husband lives in central California to pursue his career. That kind of marriage doesn't make sense to me.

I also think it's unreasonable to expect a guy to sacrifice his career for me, unless that's a sacrifice he wants to freely make himself. So I wouldn't marry men in certain careers because by their very nature, those careers take too much time away from a relationship or require more of me than I would be willing to give. Military is one of those careers. Not only do I not want to deal with deployments for months on end, but I also would not be willing to move from place to place all the time. A woman has to recognize the demands of a man's career from the get-go, and if she is not willing to put up with them, don't marry the guy. My two cents.

--hide--
Hi Liisa,

Like Brenda, you also made many good points, some of which had never entered my mind with as many details, details very relevant to the decision whether to marry a particular person.

I liked your explanation of how on the one hand you'd allowed for some careers that required a few extra hours away from home, but, on the other hand, you knew that there were limits that would reduce the time together to such a minute amount that you might as well be single.

I liked how you added the words, unless that's a sacrifice he wants to freely make himself, after you wrote, I also think it's unreasonable to expect a guy to sacrifice his career for me. I say this because the experience of being with you might be, for some men, worth dropping any career and you should allow that option if it happens.

John

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: HI John, This is a good question. And, to be honest I think it partly depends upon the pe...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

HI John,

This is a good question. And, to be honest I think it partly depends upon the people involved. Pete and I married on a Friday, the following Monday he was gone for three weeks. Throughout our marriage he was often gone either working long hours or out of town because of work. I never not once complained about his lack of being there because I knew for him it was integral to his sense of self worth to be able to provide well for his family and to work hard. He never however abused this. If he was at work, he was at work. None of this, I've got to work late or have a meeting and really being somewhere else. He did occasionally call and ask if I minded if he went out with his co-workers for a beer or dinner and I never had an issue with it. I took care of pretty much everything else, but when he was home he was very hands on with the kiddos and they would run out the front door to greet him when he made it home. We made plans for family activiities and holidays. We would spend hours on the porch in the summer just talking and some nights just laying in bed talking about everything.

We had our kiddos young and close together so they would be grown by the time we were the age I am now. In about 2000 he started urging me to go back to school, I finally did in 2002. We had decided that when I finished school, he would retire and we would go wherever my career took us. He would take some classes he wanted to take and either volunteer or do some work he found interesting. We never got that opportunity. I will complete the PhD in the next year or so and Pete was killed last April doing his job. It saddens me that he worked so very hard all these years, sacrificing many things to do so and will not get the chance to take that heat and air class he wanted to take. But, I am so very blessed to have had him. And, don't get me wrong, he had his faults lol.

When he had to work late, I would wait up to make sure he had a hot meal. He used to always urge me to just go to bed, so I wouldn't be tired the next day, but I thought if he was sacrificing so could I and I wanted him to know I appreciated his sacrifice and hard work. I overheard him a few years ago talking to our son and he mentioned that and told our son that it was one of the things that really made him feel loved, despite being irritated that I wouldn't listen to his concern about me getting enough rest, lol.

When I do complete the PhD I will have many decisions to make and I may very well have to face this in the future with someone, who will most probably also have their own career. But, I do believe it can be managed.

--hide--
Hi Lauren,

Your remark, I never not once complained about his lack of being there because I knew for him it was integral to his sense of self worth, was a subtle insight. How did you figure that out? It seems that one of the important foundations that allowed you to accept his frequent times away from home was that you felt you could trust him absolutely.

I hope that men are not intimidated by your future Phd. If you decide to change Phd to Phood, let me know. laughing

John

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Beverly-936499 said: My career encompasses, of necessity, travel. My late husband was already retired - and it was o...
(Quote) Beverly-936499 said:

My career encompasses, of necessity, travel. My late husband was already retired - and it was of no moment to him ever that we lived on the road. Wouldn't have had it any other way. His concept was that the spouse that was still earning a living dictated where the other one lived. So for us, a non-issue. While I understand that is not normal with most people's standards - it was normal for us. Isn't that a part of marriage?

--hide--
Hi Beverly,

Thanks for voicing that "the spouse that was still earning a living dictated where the other one lived" principle. It's a helpful consideration about which to be aware.

John

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Brenda-444789 said: Hello again, John. I'm slightly puzzled by part of your response to my post. How does my sta...
(Quote) Brenda-444789 said:

Hello again, John. I'm slightly puzzled by part of your response to my post. How does my stating that I want someone 'that I can simply be with' scare off a man who may not be highly communicative? I thought, if anything, it would elude to the fact that I didn't need or necessarily want to be entertained or stimulated 24/7. As anyone who has seen my profile has no doubt noticed, I am indeed an extrovert and of at least reasonable intelligence and I will admit that I appreciate people with whom I can enjoy a good conversation. That being said; I tend to expend a great deal of my energies when I'm out at work, volunteering or socializing. I view my home and family as a delightful retreat where I don't have to juggle multiple personalities, issues and tasks - a place where I can wind down, relax and recharge my batteries. Frankly, when I said that I would simply like somebody to be with, I was picturing another lump on the sofa, someone across the dinner table or someone to snuggle under the covers, spoon and indulge in some end of day pillow talk with. The last thing I need at the end of every day (perhaps on occasion, pertaining to the hot topic of the day's news or something would be all right) is some in depth debate or discussion. I just want to 'chill', as they say.

--hide--
Hi Brenda,

I was assuming that a man who was with his wife would expect that she assumed that they'd spend their social time largely in the acts of talking and listening and that a man who was not adept at this would try to avoid frequently being in such a situation for long periods of time. One way to avoid this would be for him to work a lot. I suppose that some men who are not good communicators could be comfortable with a lot of social time with their wives if they (the men) knew that their wives just needed their physical presence even if that presence included little ability in social conversation. Maybe women who are aware that their husbands are not excellent social conversationalists should explicitly mention this to their husbands.

John

Mar 10th 2013 new

In my opinion, there are three orders of things of importance and in this order: 1) God. 2) Family--inlcuding spouses and future spouses. 3) Career.

However, the career part could still sometimes be more important than family and overtake the 2 position, not because it is more important than family, but because it is truly what God has planned for that person, in which case see number one.

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