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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: Hi Lauren, Your remark, I never not once complained about his lack of being the...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

Hi Lauren,

Your remark, I never not once complained about his lack of being there because I knew for him it was integral to his sense of self worth, was a subtle insight. How did you figure that out? It seems that one of the important foundations that allowed you to accept his frequent times away from home was that you felt you could trust him absolutely.

I hope that men are not intimidated by your future Phd. If you decide to change Phd to Phood, let me know.

John

--hide--

Hi John,

I hope my PhD doesn't intimidate lol but I suppose it might :-(.

I've been pondering this response with far more difficulty that I thought I would, and after writing and rewriting, the answer finally came to me. How was I able to figure that out? Plain and simple, a gift from the Holy Spirit. As Catholics we should remember and believe that a Sacramental marriage is infused with gifts that assist us in marriage. For me, I think one of them was being able to truly see and deeply and unconditionally love Pete. Perhaps seeing in him what God sees in him. As remarkable as Pete could be, he was also deeply flawed by a childhood that was substantially lacking in true love and care. He set rigid standards for himself and when he felt he had violated them, he was harsher than I could ever have been with him. But, no matter what the exterior appeared to be, I somehow always knew what was really there. And, I can only say that it was a gift of the Holy Spirit, because had I been left to my own human frailties, there were times I might have taken things as personal affronts and bailed.

A few weeks before Pete was killed, we were in the car and all of a sudden he reached over and grabbed my hand and kissed the back of it. There were tears on his cheek. And, he said, "I am so glad you never gave up on me." I smiled and kissed the back of his hand and said, "Well, I couldn't give up on you, not ever." He whispered, "Me neither."

We built a good life, we weathered some serious storms, we enjoyed some perfectly calm seas, we raised four strong, loving, capable children. We were strong when the other was weak. And, through it all, somehow we were able to just love each other, despite our flaws and inconsiderate moments. And, I know we made it because we had help in doing so.

Now if the Holy Spirit would give me some clue as to what the next phase of my life is supposed to be, I would feel so much better. He has been very quiet since Pete was killed and I feel a bit adrift.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: I'd surmise that women more that men are uneasy about ending up in a marriage where their sign...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

I'd surmise that women more that men are uneasy about ending up in a marriage where their significance comes in second to the career of their significant other; yet, this worry is not completely absent from the minds of men.

Have thoughts that his or her affections for the occupation might be stronger than for you ever much been a consideration of yours?

Is the satisfaction flowing from your profession so intense that it would be hard for you not to put your mate in second place?

Are the time demands of your kind of employment so great that only a spouse who expects little social time with you will be able to avoid feelings of neglect?

Practicing my refrain, "Step to the rear, Dear, that my career may draw ever near",

John

--hide--



Women seem to get all the good jobs now so I actually think the concern is more the other way around....

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Josh-196444 said: good post. I see our generation enamored with careers. Many men and women are in apartments...
(Quote) Josh-196444 said:

good post.

I see our generation enamored with careers. Many men and women are in apartments and dating other young professionals that live either in condos or apartments, but are delaying marriage due to career uncertainty. Or they are unemployed/underemployed and living with their parents.

In the '90s 20s and 30s could go get jobs anywhere as well as apartments. The economy was roaring then.

--hide--
Thanks for those remarks about what is going on in the world of the 20 and 30-year olds. For me that is an update because I have no direct contact with that world.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: I view careers as morally neutral. They can be used to uplift the individual seeking it, to impro...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

I view careers as morally neutral. They can be used to uplift the individual seeking it, to improve their social circles, their work ethic. Or it can destory, it can become a compulsion that drives a wedge between the spouses, it can open the doors to adultery and emotional infidelity as the career driven spouse may find someone who understands their drive within their career circle.

Of course, I think careers are over rated, so many women spend so much time in their younger years, ie. 20s/30s pushing for those high ranked places, that when they do find a guy and get married, uh oh, the eggs are kinda all dried up. Then all they really have is a career, husband tends to take the back burner. Likewise, I see women actively hunt doctors thinking the money, wealth and social status will set them up for life, thenthey become disheartened when they realise how much a doctor actually works and the hours he's not at home with her; especially in the early days of a career aimed towards very high places.

For me, "career" is just my job's natural progression up the ranks. I'm only tolerating it because I'm not married. It'll be taking the backseat if I ever do get married. Husband wise, I'm not clingy nor socially insecure, so I would be more open to a man seeking a career with gutso then him just having a job he slugs himself too each day.

--hide--
It was interesting to read the additional career-can-interfere aspect that you mentioned, " it can open the doors to adultery and emotional infidelity as the career driven spouse may find someone who understands their drive within their career circle."

Your words, "I would be more open to a man seeking a career with gusto then him just having a job he slugs himself too each day" suggest the possibility of the opposite situation where a man has a job that is so unfulfilling that it can affect the rest of his life include his relationship to his wife if he is married. I hadn't thought of that possibility.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) William-913283 said: In my opinion, there are three orders of things of importance and in this order: 1) God. 2) Fam...
(Quote) William-913283 said:

In my opinion, there are three orders of things of importance and in this order: 1) God. 2) Family--inlcuding spouses and future spouses. 3) Career.

However, the career part could still sometimes be more important than family and overtake the 2 position, not because it is more important than family, but because it is truly what God has planned for that person, in which case see number one.

--hide--
It is encouraging that someone has boiled things down to a simple formula.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: I'd surmise that women more that men are uneasy about ending up in a marriage where their sign...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

I'd surmise that women more that men are uneasy about ending up in a marriage where their significance comes in second to the career of their significant other; yet, this worry is not completely absent from the minds of men.

Have thoughts that his or her affections for the occupation might be stronger than for you ever much been a consideration of yours?

Is the satisfaction flowing from your profession so intense that it would be hard for you not to put your mate in second place?

Are the time demands of your kind of employment so great that only a spouse who expects little social time with you will be able to avoid feelings of neglect?

Practicing my refrain, "Step to the rear, Dear, that my career may draw ever near",

John

--hide--

John, I experienced the career-over-relationship phenomena with a gentleman I met online and we happened to go to the same parish. The coincidence seemed to be heaven-sent and we had much in common, compatible, attracted, etc... We caught each other when we could, but when I had to move across town, everything dropped except online communication and promises of "sometime". There was always a project, a trip, a deadline - and I believe this was true, considering the career he is in. After holding out much too long, nearly a year, I finally moved on. I hope he will find balance in his life, so he can love and be loved by his imperfect, perfect match. If you're man enough to pursue a career, you've also got to be man enough to pursue your girl.

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Alice-788574 said: John, I experienced the career-over-relationship phenomena with a gentleman I met online and we h...
(Quote) Alice-788574 said:

John, I experienced the career-over-relationship phenomena with a gentleman I met online and we happened to go to the same parish. The coincidence seemed to be heaven-sent and we had much in common, compatible, attracted, etc... We caught each other when we could, but when I had to move across town, everything dropped except online communication and promises of "sometime". There was always a project, a trip, a deadline - and I believe this was true, considering the career he is in. After holding out much too long, nearly a year, I finally moved on. I hope he will find balance in his life, so he can love and be loved by his imperfect, perfect match. If you're man enough to pursue a career, you've also got to be man enough to pursue your girl.

--hide--
Hi Alice,

Thanks for relating a real-life instance of the interplay between "my career and my dear".

Am I right in guessing that the feelings involved in this kind if situation are, although greatly disappointing, quite different from outright rejection?

Also, for some men, isn't it possible he'd feel that his career was part of the attraction you had for him and that therefore, dropping his career to be with you would be self-defeating because he would no longer possess one of the main aspects that attracted you?

John

Mar 10th 2013 new

(Quote) John-184825 said: Hi Alice, Thanks for relating a real-life instance of the interplay between "my career...
(Quote) John-184825 said:

Hi Alice,

Thanks for relating a real-life instance of the interplay between "my career and my dear".

Am I right in guessing that the feelings involved in this kind if situation are, although greatly disappointing, quite different from outright rejection?

Also, for some men, isn't it possible he'd feel that his career was part of the attraction you had for him and that therefore, dropping his career to be with you would be self-defeating because he would no longer possess one of the main aspects that attracted you?

John

--hide--


John, I think outright rejection would have been easier than continuing to hope for a possible future. Though his career was interesting to me, it was not the main attraction.



Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Alice-788574 said: John, I think outright rejection would have been easier than continuing to h...
(Quote) Alice-788574 said:


John, I think outright rejection would have been easier than continuing to hope for a possible future. Though his career was interesting to me, it was not the main attraction.

--hide--
Hi Alice,

Thanks for taking the tome to reply. I guess I was asking only about the sharpness of pain, but did not make that clear. You seem to be saying that a temporary, sharp pain would be more endurable than the prolonged uncertainty that you experienced.

John

Mar 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: Hi John, I hope my PhD doesn't intimidate lol but I suppose it might :-(.
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

Hi John,

I hope my PhD doesn't intimidate lol but I suppose it might :-(.

I've been pondering this response with far more difficulty that I thought I would, and after writing and rewriting, the answer finally came to me. How was I able to figure that out? Plain and simple, a gift from the Holy Spirit. As Catholics we should remember and believe that a Sacramental marriage is infused with gifts that assist us in marriage. For me, I think one of them was being able to truly see and deeply and unconditionally love Pete. Perhaps seeing in him what God sees in him. As remarkable as Pete could be, he was also deeply flawed by a childhood that was substantially lacking in true love and care. He set rigid standards for himself and when he felt he had violated them, he was harsher than I could ever have been with him. But, no matter what the exterior appeared to be, I somehow always knew what was really there. And, I can only say that it was a gift of the Holy Spirit, because had I been left to my own human frailties, there were times I might have taken things as personal affronts and bailed.

A few weeks before Pete was killed, we were in the car and all of a sudden he reached over and grabbed my hand and kissed the back of it. There were tears on his cheek. And, he said, "I am so glad you never gave up on me." I smiled and kissed the back of his hand and said, "Well, I couldn't give up on you, not ever." He whispered, "Me neither."

We built a good life, we weathered some serious storms, we enjoyed some perfectly calm seas, we raised four strong, loving, capable children. We were strong when the other was weak. And, through it all, somehow we were able to just love each other, despite our flaws and inconsiderate moments. And, I know we made it because we had help in doing so.

Now if the Holy Spirit would give me some clue as to what the next phase of my life is supposed to be, I would feel so much better. He has been very quiet since Pete was killed and I feel a bit adrift.

--hide--
Hi Lauren,

Thanks for writing a very rich answer. In reply to my question about how you figured out something both complicated and hidden in the subconscious of another person, your answer that it was the Holy Spirit makes sense. It made sense because, I think, it was beyond human powers to have that insight, as you put it: "I knew for him it was integral to his sense of self worth to be able to provide well for his family and to work hard".

The rest of what you wrote was also very moving. Thanks.

John

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