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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: I know they are as lunatic as the evangelicals and Fundamentalits who claim its a dise...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

I know they are as lunatic as the evangelicals and Fundamentalits who claim its a disease or disorder. Forget them and their hatefilled rubbish

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Sorry Patrick, but your categorization of them as lunatics is as off base and incorrect as are those who condemn the sinners who happen to be homosexual rather than condemning the practice of homosexuality. A point which you have correctly stated several times in this thread.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Didn't you catch the fact that he said the married priest were LEAVING CHURCH PROPERT...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Didn't you catch the fact that he said the married priest were LEAVING CHURCH PROPERTY to their children. Or to put it in simpler terms, they were stealing church property and giving it to their children. So the Church was trying to protect its own property NOT trying to get their hands on the Priest's property.

If you want to continue pursuing the property issue, one of the Church's considerations is that the financial burden of having to pay married priests a wage sufficient to support his family would become prohibitive.

Yes both the apostate priest and the Passionist are fantasizing. The only evidence we have of an Apostle having been married was Peter who had a Mother-in-law. But there is no mention of his wife in any historical document so his wife was probably deceased when he was called by Christ. No evidence of any kind exists that any other of the Apostles were or had been married. So his statement that the apostles were married is pure unadulterated fantasy.

Although the unmarried priesthood is a mere discipline and could be changed, the possibility that the general discipline will be changed is minimal. So the claim by both priests that the Church has to face it and discuss it is more fantasy then reality.

We had Popes who played around with women and had mistresses. But since the earliest days of the Church a married priest could never be made a Bishop. In all the Eastern rites both in communion with Rome and the Orthodox will allow a married candidate to become a priest. But if they are not married before ordination they are prohibited from marrying. A married priest whose wife dies is prohibited from remarrying. No married person, even if he is a widower cannot be ordained a bishop.

The celibacy of the clergy arose from the monastic side of the Church. And there are so many practical values to it that far outweigh any financial considerations. The idea of serving two masters is one of them. A celibate priest does not have to concern himself with the practicalities of being the head of a family. It gives him the freedom to do things that a married man would hesitate to do.

As an example of this last; to date, since the civil war when the Congressional Medal of Honor was first created, only 7 or 8 military Chaplin's have been given that award. Every single one of them a Catholic Priest. And they did not win the award because they were safely behind the battle lines somewhere serving the men. They were right in the midst of battle, on the front line with the men they served, under fire.

Ask any military veteran who has been in combat and no matter what their faith tradition they will tell you that the only Chaplin's they ever saw at the front were Catholic priests. Because they had no families to worry about they were free to put themselves in imminent danger. Most Chaplin's of other faiths are married. Although they are not cowards, they are rarely in the middle of battle.

As has been mentioned in these threads, many married priests in Eastern Rites here in the states are forced to find employment elsewhere to support their families. That is because the congregations are relatively small and can't afford to pay them enough. If their work takes them away from the parish, they are not in a position to fully serve their congregations. A simple matter of arithmetic since there are only so many hours in a day.

These are just some of the reasons why any change is unlikely and the stories of financial greed on the part of the Church was a reason for the rule are pure fantasy.

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Save your breath, they want them to burn and suffer

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Thanks for proving my point
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Thanks for proving my point

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Try reading the entire post instead of cherry-picking one line.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Or all this is just a case of one group of homosexual prelates blackmailing another fa...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:




Or all this is just a case of one group of homosexual prelates blackmailing another faction. If you really wanted to purge homosexuality from the Church, you'd have to be prepared to get rid of 50 percent or more of priests. Look up "Oso Pious", the alias of a man who claims to have been a Paraclete back in the 1960s. Oso writes that back in the 1950s he went to the same Oblates minor seminary in Belleville that Cardinal George attended. According to Oso, the Oblates minor seminary was basically a "homosexual factory" where students were abused often by priests. The homosexual problem in the Church is too big to change over night. This will take decades to clean up because the scope of the problem is so enormous.

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Sean, I'm not buying your 50% figure. Without absolute proof, this is a disservice to the thousands of dedicated priests throughout the world. The Church if facing problems because of the truth -- we don't need to interject fiction to make things worse.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: The poster implied homosexuality is linked to all abuse which is rubbish, and you know it so pi...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

The poster implied homosexuality is linked to all abuse which is rubbish, and you know it so pick a fight with someone more down at your level

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I assume you are referring to the following post:

Sure it is. Just take a look at the priest-abusers and non-clerical abusers who introduced male youth to sodomy. That's what's meant by "corruption of youth." Sodomy's like drugs. Why do you think the elites of today are pushing it so hard? To screw people up...because if you can't control yourself, someone else can control you.

The abusers being discusses are qualified as being the subset who introduced male youths to sodomy (i.e., male homosexuals). I see no way this can be read as suggesting all abusers are homosexual.

A note to all:

If you are unable to participate in the discussion without introducing personal attacks and insults, please refrain from commenting

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: (Quote) Sean-851370 said:Or all this is just a case of one group of homosex...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

Quote:
Sean-851370 said:

Or all this is just a case of one group of homosexual prelates blackmailing another faction. If you really wanted to purge homosexuality from the Church, you'd have to be prepared to get rid of 50 percent or more of priests. Look up "Oso Pious", the alias of a man who claims to have been a Paraclete back in the 1960s. Oso writes that back in the 1950s he went to the same Oblates minor seminary in Belleville that Cardinal George attended. According to Oso, the Oblates minor seminary was basically a "homosexual factory" where students were abused often by priests. The homosexual problem in the Church is too big to change over night. This will take decades to clean up because the scope of the problem is so enormous.


Sean, I'm not buying your 50% figure. Without absolute proof, this is a disservice to the thousands of dedicated priests throughout the world. The Church if facing problems because of the truth -- we don't need to interject fiction to make things worse.

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I concur with Ray: if you are going to level accusations like this you need to provide supporting data. And note that allegations by an anonymous person claiming to have been a prelate don't qualify as data Not to mention that what you have posted here, even if taken at face value, is not anywhere near sufficient to support the allegation.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

In my opinion (and only mine), it really does seem like hypocrisy. I meet a Maronite Catholic Priest at a Roman Catholic parish, and he was a married layperson who requested to be ordained, was approved, and is a married Catholic Priest with kids in full communion with Rome. Then you have the Episcopal and other Protestant clergy who convert and also get the best of both worlds, but be a cradle Catholic and you are forced to choose between one or ther other. They say that Priests need to be celibate because of the demands on their time, but if married laymen were ordained, the perceived shortage would disappear, and the greater number of Priests would make the workload that much easier to manage.

When the parish in Mount Pleasant, SC announced Father Vincent's arrival, the bulletin noted that in the early Church, Priests (to include the Apostles) were married, the first 39 or so Popes were married, and this tradition worked just fine. So if we truly are returning to the traditional Church, married Priests would be a return to the original way of doing things, not some radical liberal notion.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: So if we truly are returning to the traditional Church, married Priests would be a return to the o...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

So if we truly are returning to the traditional Church, married Priests would be a return to the original way of doing things, not some radical liberal notion.

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I agree.

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Until the early 1970s The DSM said it was a P...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

Until the early 1970s The DSM said it was a Psychological Disorder.Freud believed that too.


Until the 1960s Interlectual Disability was a Mental Disorder too. Get out of the Middle Ages we are in the 21 Century. Whats wrong with you. DSM IV doesnt even mention homosexuality

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Would you agree that it is unnatural at least? Disordered according to nature?

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Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Abuse IS NOT EVER linked to homosexuality, in fact many sexual and physical abusers ar...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Abuse IS NOT EVER linked to homosexuality, in fact many sexual and physical abusers are hetrosexual. To commit sodomy you dont have to be homosexual. "Screwing people up" as you so ironically put it is not the sole domain of the homosexual. I suggest you come and work in the Trauma Department or Intensive Psychiatric Care with me an you will see for your self. Come with a strong stomach and hardend ID. It isnt pleasant.

The rest of your arguement I cant accept as anything but well, rubbish. Im from the elite intelligencia and Im not homosexual, an abuser, or pushing sodomy on anyone. Neither are any mmbers of my family or our friends. The class war has nothing to do with it.

Its not that simple, it never has been, it never will be.

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Not ever linked to homosexuality? A more correct statement would be that abuse is not always linked to homosexuality. "Gay" and "homosexual" are political labels. In the Church certain kinds of behavior are prohibited, regardless of what one's political label is. The last time I checked "gays" and "straights" are all human. The same rules apply to everyone. Our modern world is idiotic in many ways, one of which includes the creation of "gay" liberation and identity politics based on "sexual orientation."


"Gays" aren't inherently evil but rather examples of what happenes as a result of the corruption of youth. It is beyond the comprehension of the mainstream media that the "gay" community likely includes many people who ended up in that community as a result of molestation and abuse.




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