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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Although the early Church had married priest no married priest could ever be made a Bisho...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Although the early Church had married priest no married priest could ever be made a Bishop. You fantasy tale attempting to explain the unmarried discipline falls flat on its face.

Rather, it is based on the Epistles of Paul. Try reading them.

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You know, you can be rather insulting? Sorry to burst your bubble. I actually would take the word of a well regarded friend and priest who has years of knowledge and study than someone that tells me to go read the bible....When did you get your theology degree? Why don't you read the history of the Catholic church? It's not all roses or haven't you noticed. Part of the problem in our church are those people that keep putting their heads in the sand.

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: Whoever the new Pope is, I hope he marches in there and weeds out all the garbage. None of this h...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

Whoever the new Pope is, I hope he marches in there and weeds out all the garbage. None of this homosexual rubbish in our top ranks, thank you very much.

I love our Church, I hope for Her sake that the secret report, or the damning homosexual portions and corruption is outed. I hope names are named, I hope the liars and thieves and the deviants and perverts are ratted out, defroked and kicked out. Its the likes of those prideful sasquatches that our Church has faced so many troubles these last few decades.

Its time we had a spring clean. [And it'll be Spring in the Northern Hemisphere now].

The Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't go on the offensive for a change.

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thumbsup

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: The only proof I have is that I got the information from a pastor that has numerous degrees in...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:


The only proof I have is that I got the information from a pastor that has numerous degrees in theology and has been a priest for 25 years. I don't see any reason why he would make such a thing up. The reason I relayed the information was to point out that homosexual males have had influence in the church probably since the beginning. This stuff isn't new. The video pointed out it is very deeply seeded.

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I won't go so far as to suggest he made it up; I think it's more likely he was passing on something he was told by someone he thought was credible

The following article on clerical celibacy from the Catholic Encyclopedia may be of some interest:

www.newadvent.org

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: I won't go so far as to suggest he made it up; I think it's more likely he was pa...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

I won't go so far as to suggest he made it up; I think it's more likely he was passing on something he was told by someone he thought was credible

The following article on clerical celibacy from the Catholic Encyclopedia may be of some interest:

www.newadvent.org

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Thanks for the reference Jerry, though I've read through it in the past. A brief study of Christian history tells us that priests were allowed to be married during the first thousand years of the Church. As the early Middle Ages progressed there developed significant differences between Eastern and Western Christianity, including the issue of celibacy, which eventually led to a schism resulting in the Eastern and Western Popes excommunicated each other.

During the Middle Ages the monastic movement grew in Europe and imposed extremely strict lifestyles, including celibacy, on monks who were totally devoted to religious life, while at the same time Rome was consolidating it's power under the Pope. The Universal Church has continued the rule of celibacy, while Eastern Christian priests can marry.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing that Jesus said that specifically states that priests must be celibate. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The writings of Paul do suggest the issue of the division of devotion between vocation and family. That alone does not tell me that priests MUST be celibate, and apparently the early clergy didn't believe this to be the case as well.

The Catholic Church is imploding! It has been polluted for centuries by the infiltration of homosexuals and pedophiles who have used the vow of celibacy as a veil of secrecy to practice their perversion - these men MUST BE PURGED!!! The majority of priests are pius men, but the Church's indifference in dealing with this faction of priests is pathetic, and is ruining the Church. With what we now know about human psychology and physiology we can see that celibacy is potentially physically and mentally harmful. We need married men to be ordained as priests, and we need to find ways to make it financially viable - instead of spending it on lawyers and huge abuse case settlements!





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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: You know, you can be rather insulting? Sorry to burst your bubble. I actually would ta...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:




You know, you can be rather insulting? Sorry to burst your bubble. I actually would take the word of a well regarded friend and priest who has years of knowledge and study than someone that tells me to go read the bible....When did you get your theology degree? Why don't you read the history of the Catholic church? It's not all roses or haven't you noticed. Part of the problem in our church are those people that keep putting their heads in the sand.

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Never claimed everything was all roses. But I do get sick and tired when a bunch of canards no better than a pile of horse manure gets spouted even if it originated from a priest.

No, I don't have a theorlogical degree, but one is hardly needed. I do know Church history. Learned an awful lot of that in the seminary.

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: I won't go so far as to suggest he made it up; I think it's more likely he was pa...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

I won't go so far as to suggest he made it up; I think it's more likely he was passing on something he was told by someone he thought was credible

The following article on clerical celibacy from the Catholic Encyclopedia may be of some interest:

www.newadvent.org

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My, my Jerry, how can the Catholic encyclopedia possibly stand up to the reported words of a much degreed priest?

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Joseph-750000 said: Thanks for the reference Jerry, though I've read through it in the past. A brief study of Ch...
(Quote) Joseph-750000 said:

Thanks for the reference Jerry, though I've read through it in the past. A brief study of Christian history tells us that priests were allowed to be married during the first thousand years of the Church. As the early Middle Ages progressed there developed significant differences between Eastern and Western Christianity, including the issue of celibacy, which eventually led to a schism resulting in the Eastern and Western Popes excommunicated each other.

During the Middle Ages the monastic movement grew in Europe and imposed extremely strict lifestyles, including celibacy, on monks who were totally devoted to religious life, while at the same time Rome was consolidating it's power under the Pope. The Universal Church has continued the rule of celibacy, while Eastern Christian priests can marry.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing that Jesus said that specifically states that priests must be celibate. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The writings of Paul do suggest the issue of the division of devotion between vocation and family. That alone does not tell me that priests MUST be celibate, and apparently the early clergy didn't believe this to be the case as well.

The Catholic Church is imploding! It has been polluted for centuries by the infiltration of homosexuals and pedophiles who have used the vow of celibacy as a veil of secrecy to practice their perversion - these men MUST BE PURGED!!! The majority of priests are pius men, but the Church's indifference in dealing with this faction of priests is pathetic, and is ruining the Church. With what we now know about human psychology and physiology we can see that celibacy is potentially physically and mentally harmful. We need married men to be ordained as priests, and we need to find ways to make it financially viable - instead of spending it on lawyers and huge abuse case settlements!





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The mistake here is the assumption that the rule of celebacy is the root cause of the of the sex abuse scandals.

If that were true, then we would see virtually no instances of sexual abuse among married men or men in a relationship with a women. That is false on its face, because it is exactly this group of men where the highest instances of sexual abuse occur.

Even in this group, the rate of sexual abuse is 2% or less. And among the celibate Catholic clergy it is even lower, even if we assume every priest accused of it was guilty.

The rate of abusers among Protestant clergy is higher than among Catholic Priests. And most protestant clergy are married. The rate of abuse among male school teachers is even higher and most of them are married.

There are legitimate arguments that can be made for a married clergy. But your main argument is not one of them

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The mistake here is the assumption that the rule of celebacy is the root cause of the of ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The mistake here is the assumption that the rule of celebacy is the root cause of the of the sex abuse scandals.

If that were true, then we would see virtually no instances of sexual abuse among married men or men in a relationship with a women. That is false on its face, because it is exactly this group of men where the highest instances of sexual abuse occur.

Even in this group, the rate of sexual abuse is 2% or less. And among the celibate Catholic clergy it is even lower, even if we assume every priest accused of it was guilty.

The rate of abusers among Protestant clergy is higher than among Catholic Priests. And most protestant clergy are married. The rate of abuse among male school teachers is even higher and most of them are married.

There are legitimate arguments that can be made for a married clergy. But your main argument is not one of them

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The problem is one of discipline. The issue of celibacy in the Catholic Church is comparable to that of divorced clergy among the Protestants. When discipline breaks down, perversion takes over. This tends to happen when a deviant rises to a place of prominence in a seminary, diocese, dicastery, etc.
There's no way that only two percent of priests have been abusers. I'd say up to twenty percent or more depending on the ordination class. But data are so incomplete that we likely never will know for sure.

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Joseph-750000 said: Thanks for the reference Jerry, though I've read through it in the past. A brief study of Ch...
(Quote) Joseph-750000 said:

Thanks for the reference Jerry, though I've read through it in the past. A brief study of Christian history tells us that priests were allowed to be married during the first thousand years of the Church. As the early Middle Ages progressed there developed significant differences between Eastern and Western Christianity, including the issue of celibacy, which eventually led to a schism resulting in the Eastern and Western Popes excommunicated each other.

During the Middle Ages the monastic movement grew in Europe and imposed extremely strict lifestyles, including celibacy, on monks who were totally devoted to religious life, while at the same time Rome was consolidating it's power under the Pope. The Universal Church has continued the rule of celibacy, while Eastern Christian priests can marry.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing that Jesus said that specifically states that priests must be celibate. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The writings of Paul do suggest the issue of the division of devotion between vocation and family. That alone does not tell me that priests MUST be celibate, and apparently the early clergy didn't believe this to be the case as well.

The Catholic Church is imploding! It has been polluted for centuries by the infiltration of homosexuals and pedophiles who have used the vow of celibacy as a veil of secrecy to practice their perversion - these men MUST BE PURGED!!! The majority of priests are pius men, but the Church's indifference in dealing with this faction of priests is pathetic, and is ruining the Church. With what we now know about human psychology and physiology we can see that celibacy is potentially physically and mentally harmful. We need married men to be ordained as priests, and we need to find ways to make it financially viable - instead of spending it on lawyers and huge abuse case settlements!

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What are you arguing against? Where was it claimed that Divine Law requires clergy to be celibate?

Day-to-day life in modern society is potentially physically and mentally harmful. Certainly not all people are able to maintain celibacy throughout life; however, many, many people have lived celibately throughout the course of human existence without being harmed.

In case you haven't notice, many of the school teachers arrested for improper relationships with minors/students are married, so that's not a solution for the problem.

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Mar 1st 2013 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: There's no way that only two percent of priests have been abusers. I'd say up to twent...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:


There's no way that only two percent of priests have been abusers. I'd say up to twenty percent or more depending on the ordination class. But data are so incomplete that we likely never will know for sure.

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I didn't realize Friday was make up a statistic day. There is a term for this: it's called calumny.

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