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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: Well, technically the priest didn't own the land their future children could hav...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:


Well, technically the priest didn't own the land their future children could have inherited. It was church property. Never heard about the "they were all homos in the olden days" spiel. It doesn't make much sense, does it, since most homosexuals wouldn't have been fathering children back in 900AD. Unless they know something we don't.


Granted, non-married priests are a tradition, not a doctrine, so it coudl change. However, I dont' think its a viable solution in this day and age. Priests have a lot of pressure on them, they have to have a whole community under their watch. Insert a wife and children, you're going to put too much pressure on the Priest. This isn't like wishy washy branches of Protestantism where a minister can have a wife and kids, those minsters also have multiple lay individauls and other ministers assisting them. Its not like they're being called out at 2 in the morning to administer the last rites to some poor schmuck who got hit by a drunk trying to reverse out of a drive through.

Marriage is hard enough as it is, insert the domains of every Peter, Paul and Maria from the Parish they oversee and a wife could end up feeling very low down the ranks indeed; or the parish suffers from the Priest's familial details.

I'm not saying it can't be done, and the Eastern Rite, Anglican jumping married Priests seem to be managing, but I think we should just leave as is. Celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom is a powerful asset.

--hide--


I agree with what you have said except for the "they were all homos in the olden days" Never said that they were ALL. As it has come out there are quite a few gay men in the clergy and probably always have been.

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

Celibacy is a gift. And Chastity is very important. I think our priests reflect our society. We can pooh-pooh the Vatican but when all of society is becoming sex-crazed....when you can't go to the movies and not see a sex scene, how are priests supposed to stay pure. Celibacy is very difficult when everyone around you constantly revolves around sex. You know, when I'm married, I might miss being celibate....somewhat. There is a close-ness to God, belonging only to him.

However, celibacy IS supported in the bible. Unfortunately, I don't remember where. I think it is in Matthew. He talks of the Queen's eunechs. And he suggests that if anyone can do that for God that they should. Well, the Queen's eunechs(is this spelled right?) were celibate they did that in honor of the Queen.
Part of the reason Priests in the early church were allowed to be married is that most people weren't BORN into the church, they converted, when they already had families. It wasn't practical to only select single men to be priests because the people who were converting we mainly men already married. And just like today, if you convert and are a pastor, and you are married, they allow you to become a priest. Because it's not fair to that person that they may have got their calling late. However, as more and more people were born into the church, the celibate option popped up again. The church felt this was the intention of Christ and his apostles to begin with, and made it a requirement.

I don't actually think we can understand love without celibacy, just like one cannot understand sex without understanding love. It all ties together. Love is all consumign and takes an entire person. But the calling to be married and to have children is different from the calling to be religious. It's the same love and in each case consumes all of your person, so you cannot live both callings.

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

Celibacy is a gift. And Chastity is very important. I think our priests reflect our society. We can pooh-pooh the Vatican but when all of society is becoming sex-crazed....when you can't go to the movies and not see a sex scene, how are priests supposed to stay pure. Celibacy is very difficult when everyone around you constantly revolves around sex. You know, when I'm married, I might miss being celibate....somewhat. There is a close-ness to God, belonging only to him.

However, celibacy IS supported in the bible. Unfortunately, I don't remember where. I think it is in Matthew. He talks of the Queen's eunechs. And he suggests that if anyone can do that for God that they should. Well, the Queen's eunechs(is this spelled right?) were celibate they did that in honor of the Queen.
Part of the reason Priests in the early church were allowed to be married is that most people weren't BORN into the church, they converted, when they already had families. It wasn't practical to only select single men to be priests because the people who were converting we mainly men already married. And just like today, if you convert and are a pastor, and you are married, they allow you to become a priest. Because it's not fair to that person that they may have got their calling late. However, as more and more people were born into the church, the celibate option popped up again. The church felt this was the intention of Christ and his apostles to begin with, and made it a requirement.

I don't actually think we can understand love without celibacy, just like one cannot understand sex without understanding love. It all ties together. Love is all consumign and takes an entire person. But the calling to be married and to have children is different from the calling to be religious. It's the same love and in each case consumes all of your person, so you cannot live both callings.

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Marian-83994 said: Not to take this into a differnt direction but we now have growing evidence that female t...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:



Not to take this into a differnt direction but we now have growing evidence that female teachers seem to be quite vulnerable in falling into sexual abuse of their male students. This has been a growing problem with heterosexual and married teachers, both male and female. People who fall into this lack personal boundaries and ethical standards, self reflection, self discipline and lack any sense of morality IMHO.

--hide--



On a similar note, abuse by women religious is something that simply isn't talked about very much. Based on what little has come out, I would say that the term "priest abuse scandal" is extremely misleading and that there is a mountain of very damaging info on women religious that has not been revealed.

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

In some ways it seems that only the appearance of celibacy is being maintained, no doubt in some circumstances to prop up the dignity of a largely non-chaste homosexual priesthood.


(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Celibacy is a gift. And Chastity is very important. I think our priests reflect our society. We...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said:

Celibacy is a gift. And Chastity is very important. I think our priests reflect our society. We can pooh-pooh the Vatican but when all of society is becoming sex-crazed....when you can't go to the movies and not see a sex scene, how are priests supposed to stay pure. Celibacy is very difficult when everyone around you constantly revolves around sex. You know, when I'm married, I might miss being celibate....somewhat. There is a close-ness to God, belonging only to him.

However, celibacy IS supported in the bible. Unfortunately, I don't remember where. I think it is in Matthew. He talks of the Queen's eunechs. And he suggests that if anyone can do that for God that they should. Well, the Queen's eunechs(is this spelled right?) were celibate they did that in honor of the Queen.
Part of the reason Priests in the early church were allowed to be married is that most people weren't BORN into the church, they converted, when they already had families. It wasn't practical to only select single men to be priests because the people who were converting we mainly men already married. And just like today, if you convert and are a pastor, and you are married, they allow you to become a priest. Because it's not fair to that person that they may have got their calling late. However, as more and more people were born into the church, the celibate option popped up again. The church felt this was the intention of Christ and his apostles to begin with, and made it a requirement.

I don't actually think we can understand love without celibacy, just like one cannot understand sex without understanding love. It all ties together. Love is all consumign and takes an entire person. But the calling to be married and to have children is different from the calling to be religious. It's the same love and in each case consumes all of your person, so you cannot live both callings.

--hide--

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

Hi Bernard.

I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post and was appalled!!!

MERCY! is what Jesus, my LOVE taught me. If some of you are so pure, dare throw the first stone. WE ARE ALL CALLED TO SOME SORT OF CELIBACY! We can engage in HOLY INTERCOURSE ONLY WHEN RENEWING OUR VOWS WITH OUR SPOUSE AT THE HOLY ALTAR - that is, the matrimonial bed.

It doesn't matter if someone is homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual... as long as that person sees his/her body as the vessel of the Holy Spirit and does not follow his/her carnal isntincts.

Surely a CRIME needs to go through the civil system, but just because someone has a different sexual orientation does not make him/her a sinner... only IF he/she acts upon them.. just like any of us. Oh, maybe none of you heterosexuals have ever sinned or fornicated!!!

Who is to say GOD loves a person more than another based on his/her sexual orientation, race, creed?

I am a very weak person, and I cannot judge anyone who sins, for I AM a sinner.

These are the sorts of things that make me glad I'll be in CM for a short while. All Ye Saints... I don't belong near YE! I may stain your robes!

Mari

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Mari-894290 said: Hi Bernard. I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post...
(Quote) Mari-894290 said:

Hi Bernard.

I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post and was appalled!!!

MERCY! is what Jesus, my LOVE taught me. If some of you are so pure, dare throw the first stone. WE ARE ALL CALLED TO SOME SORT OF CELIBACY! We can engage in HOLY INTERCOURSE ONLY WHEN RENEWING OUR VOWS WITH OUR SPOUSE AT THE HOLY ALTAR - that is, the matrimonial bed.

It doesn't matter if someone is homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual... as long as that person sees his/her body as the vessel of the Holy Spirit and does not follow his/her carnal isntincts.

Surely a CRIME needs to go through the civil system, but just because someone has a different sexual orientation does not make him/her a sinner... only IF he/she acts upon them.. just like any of us. Oh, maybe none of you heterosexuals have ever sinned or fornicated!!!

Who is to say GOD loves a person more than another based on his/her sexual orientation, race, creed?

I am a very weak person, and I cannot judge anyone who sins, for I AM a sinner.

These are the sorts of things that make me glad I'll be in CM for a short while. All Ye Saints... I don't belong near YE! I may stain your robes!

Mari

--hide--

Mari,

I am not certain that a lot of what is being posted actually has much to do with homosexuality at all- if you look at the history of some involved you will find that they consistently look for any excuse to vilify the Church.

But be that as it may, you are quite correct that there is a lack of charity being displayed.

LOCKED
Mar 7th 2013 new

hug

LOCKED
Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Mari-894290 said: Hi Bernard. I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post...
(Quote) Mari-894290 said:

Hi Bernard.

I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post and was appalled!!!

MERCY! is what Jesus, my LOVE taught me. If some of you are so pure, dare throw the first stone. WE ARE ALL CALLED TO SOME SORT OF CELIBACY! We can engage in HOLY INTERCOURSE ONLY WHEN RENEWING OUR VOWS WITH OUR SPOUSE AT THE HOLY ALTAR - that is, the matrimonial bed.

It doesn't matter if someone is homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual... as long as that person sees his/her body as the vessel of the Holy Spirit and does not follow his/her carnal isntincts.

Surely a CRIME needs to go through the civil system, but just because someone has a different sexual orientation does not make him/her a sinner... only IF he/she acts upon them.. just like any of us. Oh, maybe none of you heterosexuals have ever sinned or fornicated!!!

Who is to say GOD loves a person more than another based on his/her sexual orientation, race, creed?

I am a very weak person, and I cannot judge anyone who sins, for I AM a sinner.

These are the sorts of things that make me glad I'll be in CM for a short while. All Ye Saints... I don't belong near YE! I may stain your robes!

Mari

--hide--
The video is under 7 minutes in length.You really should watch it to get the full picture of what is being said. smile

LOCKED
Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: (Quote) Mari-894290 said: Hi Bernard. I cannot read the link at the ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Quote:
Mari-894290 said:

Hi Bernard.

I cannot read the link at the moment. I will try to, for sure. I read some post and was appalled!!!

MERCY! is what Jesus, my LOVE taught me. If some of you are so pure, dare throw the first stone. WE ARE ALL CALLED TO SOME SORT OF CELIBACY! We can engage in HOLY INTERCOURSE ONLY WHEN RENEWING OUR VOWS WITH OUR SPOUSE AT THE HOLY ALTAR - that is, the matrimonial bed.

It doesn't matter if someone is homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual... as long as that person sees his/her body as the vessel of the Holy Spirit and does not follow his/her carnal isntincts.

Surely a CRIME needs to go through the civil system, but just because someone has a different sexual orientation does not make him/her a sinner... only IF he/she acts upon them.. just like any of us. Oh, maybe none of you heterosexuals have ever sinned or fornicated!!!

Who is to say GOD loves a person more than another based on his/her sexual orientation, race, creed?

I am a very weak person, and I cannot judge anyone who sins, for I AM a sinner.

These are the sorts of things that make me glad I'll be in CM for a short while. All Ye Saints... I don't belong near YE! I may stain your robes!

Mari


Mari,

I am not certain that a lot of what is being posted actually has much to do with homosexuality at all- if you look at the history of some involved you will find that they consistently look for any excuse to vilify the Church.

But be that as it may, you are quite correct that there is a lack of charity being displayed.

--hide--
Did you actually watch, and listen to the video John? eyebrow

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