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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Jim-13836 said: Thank you Shara. I have been back for about a decade but there is so much I don't k...
(Quote) Jim-13836 said:


Thank you Shara. I have been back for about a decade but there is so much I don't know that I am trying to play catch up.


BTW I have appreciated your comments on other threads. You are a very devout Catholic sister, with a deep mind and the ability to express those thought really well.


I am glad to be back!

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Jim thank you for the compliment. embarassed I am not sure I deserve it but if I do it is all because God in his mercy has surrounded me with good examples to emulate and learn from so it is all His doing.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Shara, at no time have I questioned Peter's devotion intelligence. Nor have I questio...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Shara, at no time have I questioned Peter's devotion intelligence. Nor have I questioned, per se, his command of the English language. I keep, pointing out to him that the argument he uses to point out that the creation story as found in the bible is not accurate because, in his own words, light is an absolute requirement for earth to exist.

I pointed that out right off the bat, because all that is required for anything to come into existance is God's will that it happen, without regrad to any "laws of nature"that God may have created as well.

I might also point out, that my reference about command of the language was addressed to myself. Peter's response, attests to that fact. So, if I crossed the line, I did so against myself not Peter or anyone else.

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Thank you for clarifying Paul. I was truly surprised by yours and Bernie's comments as I have always considered the two of you to be fair and charitable men. It was somewhat shocking to read these post to be honest. I am relieved that I was mistaken and apologize if my response came out harsher than I intended. It was probably because I saw one of our brothers seemingly being taken to the woodshed and chopped for sharing his awe of creation. Not an excuse but, it just seemed that some defense was needed and or some posters may have needed to shown how their posts were being received. Thanks again for your response and clarification.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Boy Jim are you right. I think maybe that's why I find the Passion so intimidating for me. It'...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Boy Jim are you right. I think maybe that's why I find the Passion so intimidating for me. It's hard for me to study it. A man at our church is encouraging me to see the movie "The Passion"...but I'm actually scared. I know someday I will get my courage up, it's just a matter of time.
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Marissa, I feel the same way. I am scared to see the movie, The Passion of The Christ. At least not publicly at a movie theatre. I am posting an interesting link on the medical aspects of the death of our Lord. This helped put a lot of things into perspective for me. He is totally and deeply in love with us, without any doubt.


www.godfactor.com

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Yes, I know what you mean Jim, losing pets is hard. I've lost a few myself. That's the one thi...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Yes, I know what you mean Jim, losing pets is hard. I've lost a few myself. That's the one thing the church disagrees with science on, the idea that the world is "chaos". The church teaches, and I believe this, that everything is "intended". That rose bloomed on that day for a purpose. I always liked the bible reading that said God knew how many hairs were on our head. My grandparents always said that creation was a clue as to how God loved us. If he has enough love to be able to will into being every single blade of grass and to count every drop of water, that is alot of love. So I always find a bit of comfort in the fact that it was Gods will for an animal to die. Because I know it is for his good. It's interesting that we are the only church that at least I know of to teach this. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong.
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Hi Marissa, like you I have had experience working on a dairy farm with cows and other animals to care for. I think that we have both been blessed in our lives for these experiences since many others don't realize the happiness that comes from being around animals and nature.

I am not sure that the church teaches that it is God's will for animals to die in an unnatural way, like being butchered for meat. Also, I don't know if the church teaches that it's God's will that most dairy cows are born from artificial insemination by a Vet. Most people don't realize that a cow is pregnant a lot inorder to produce more milk for the farmer and it's done artifically.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: Hi Marissa, like you I have had experience working on a dairy farm with cows and other a...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



Hi Marissa, like you I have had experience working on a dairy farm with cows and other animals to care for. I think that we have both been blessed in our lives for these experiences since many others don't realize the happiness that comes from being around animals and nature.

I am not sure that the church teaches that it is God's will for animals to die in an unnatural way, like being butchered for meat. Also, I don't know if the church teaches that it's God's will that most dairy cows are born from artificial insemination by a Vet. Most people don't realize that a cow is pregnant a lot inorder to produce more milk for the farmer and it's done artifically.

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Ronald the psalm that I just quoted speaks of God giving us dominion over the beasts of the earth and God in Genesis speaks those words to Adam after creating the animals. If you look through the old testament there is much about the slaughtering and eating of animals. In the story of Cain and Abel Abel sacrifice of the lamb is deemed pleasing to God. Abraham in his covenant with God slaughtered many animals and well as circumcized his own flesh. This is a common theme in the bible. So common that when God was freeing the Israelites he instructed to kill and eat the lambs and smear their blood on their door posts. This theme is illustrated even more vividly when in fullfilment of messianic prohesy the God made man becomes the newly slaughtered lamb for OUR sins. I understand your love for animals. Good and holy St. Francis shared a common affliction but remember that God gave us dominion over them for a reason. We should definitely not be cruel to them or to forget that they are God's creation and are to be treated as such and in the case of pets loved, but we still have dominion. I hope this helps.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: Hi Marissa, like you I have had experience working on a dairy farm with cows and other a...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



Hi Marissa, like you I have had experience working on a dairy farm with cows and other animals to care for. I think that we have both been blessed in our lives for these experiences since many others don't realize the happiness that comes from being around animals and nature.

I am not sure that the church teaches that it is God's will for animals to die in an unnatural way, like being butchered for meat. Also, I don't know if the church teaches that it's God's will that most dairy cows are born from artificial insemination by a Vet. Most people don't realize that a cow is pregnant a lot inorder to produce more milk for the farmer and it's done artifically.

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To add to the astute explanation Shara gave. Don't forget, God gave man dominion over all the earth and its creatures and flora.

It is also clear, from the Bible that all these creatures and flora were given as food for man or for his health, etc., since obviouslythere are both creatures and plants that cannot be eaten because they are poisonous.

One can hardly eat the flesh of a cow, for example, unless it is dead. If you wait until that cow dies on its own, it may not be fit for eating. So obviously one is required to kill the cow in order to eat.

All this does not obviate the fact that refraining from eating meat can also be good when done in the spirit of sacrifice and penance. Nor does it dictate that you must eat meat. Eating it or not eating it is ones personal choice. A person's only responsibility is to eat a properly balanced diet to maintain life and good health as much as it is within our powers to do so.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Jim-13836 said: Marissa, I feel the same way. I am scared to see the movie, The Passion of The Christ. ...
(Quote) Jim-13836 said:


Marissa, I feel the same way. I am scared to see the movie, The Passion of The Christ. At least not publicly at a movie theatre. I am posting an interesting link on the medical aspects of the death of our Lord. This helped put a lot of things into perspective for me. He is totally and deeply in love with us, without any doubt.


www.godfactor.com

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Jim,

Be not afraid to see the Passion of the Christ. I took a large group of youth and their parents to see it, when it came out, we had to do permission slips for it, etc. It was the most exquisite experience. So much so, that Pete and I went back to see it by ourselves and then we purchased it on DVD. Mel Gibson maybe a tragically flawed and haunted man, but he has a gift for this and this was one of those movies which one experiences. I wept through it. I was humbled. I was uplifted. It is truly worth the time to watch and to ponder it. There used to be discussion questions one could access online as well that you could use in a group or as a way of meditating upon the Passion and perhaps journaling. I would encourage anyone who has not seen it to take the time to do so. I will most probably watch it again before Lent is over.

I can remember years ago, when my oldest was about three, during Easter week they showed one of the mini-series about Christ, can't remember which one. I watched it each evening and had done so with Joshua. I didn't think much about it, but when it came to the scourging and the crucifixion, Joshua jumped up and ran to the television, screaming at the people on the tv to stop hurting his Jesus. I hadn't expected him to be so upset, partly because I thought he was not truly paying attention to the movie, more interested with his trucks. I jumped up and turned off the television and tried to calm him down and explain it to him. But, I also was humbled to be able to witness through the innocence of a child the true enormity of what was happening to Our Lord and I could only wonder at how those there that day had felt, many I am sure like Joshua. I think of that moment everytime I think upon the Passion now.

Mar 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Shara-929649 said: Ronald the psalm that I just quoted speaks of God giving us dominion over the beasts of ...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

Ronald the psalm that I just quoted speaks of God giving us dominion over the beasts of the earth and God in Genesis speaks those words to Adam after creating the animals. If you look through the old testament there is much about the slaughtering and eating of animals. In the story of Cain and Abel Abel sacrifice of the lamb is deemed pleasing to God. Abraham in his covenant with God slaughtered many animals and well as circumcized his own flesh. This is a common theme in the bible. So common that when God was freeing the Israelites he instructed to kill and eat the lambs and smear their blood on their door posts. This theme is illustrated even more vividly when in fullfilment of messianic prohesy the God made man becomes the newly slaughtered lamb for OUR sins. I understand your love for animals. Good and holy St. Francis shared a common affliction but remember that God gave us dominion over them for a reason. We should definitely not be cruel to them or to forget that they are God's creation and are to be treated as such and in the case of pets loved, but we still have dominion. I hope this helps

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Marrisa said "So I always find a bit of comfort in the fact that it was Gods will for an animal to die. Because I know it is for his good. It's interesting that we are the only church that at least I know of to teach this. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong."

I was replying to Marrisa's comment about it being God's will for an animal to die at a certain point in time. I don't think it is God's will and I don't think that the Catholic church teaches that. Also I don't think that the church teaches that God know's when we will die or who is going to hell in advance...God gave us choices to make in our life regarding our health, how long we might live and how we might obey his commands and be loving and forgiving as Jesus taught.

I never said that there is anything wrong about eating meat; I am not a vegetarian. I am sure that God knows that some of the meat and food that we eat may be immorally produced....that causes cancer and other diseases....but it's probably not a sin to be eating it unless we are aware that it would harm the body, like poison.

I know of a Baptist preacher here that now has a health ministry and talks about the food that God intended for us to eat when he created us. We were made to be vegetarians and it is pretty obvious when you compare our teeth and digestive systems to that of other vegetarians in the animal world like apes. He preaches that God allowed us to eat meat after the flood when the vegetation was destroyed; before the flood, man was a vegetarian and the world was much healthier...that's why they lived to be several hundred years old. You should realize that there are a lot of people that believe the book of Genesis; especially among the southern Baptists.

Mar 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: Yes, I have experienced the awe of nature especially when climbing mountains. I can understand why me...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



Yes, I have experienced the awe of nature especially when climbing mountains. I can understand why men in the Bible, including Jesus, would climb a mountain to pray.

I have visited the Creation Museum in Northern KY and have found it very interesting and would recommend it for anyone wanting to get a different perspective on creation as the Bible explains it. It's amazing that there are more Baptist's here in the Bible belt that believe in the creation story than Catholics in the northern US. There are probably more highly intelligent people that believe in creation (even though they may not fully understand the meaning in the Bible about it) than intelligent people that believe only in evolution.

It's also sad that the media athiest views have a lot of influence in our society... that comes out of NY city. I don't understand how Catholics in New York and Maryland can be pro-abortion and pro-homosexual marriage when it is a mortal sin...it seems like the only explanation would be satans influence with the media in those highly populated areas.

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dont forget 'kissing' as well--thats a mortal sin according to most on another thread
Mar 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: What are your thoughts about the creation? Can you look at nature, a flower, the ocean, the sun, ...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

What are your thoughts about the creation? Can you look at nature, a flower, the ocean, the sun, a nebula or a super cluster of galaxies without wanting to fall on your knees in awe and admiration of the beauty of it all

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Creation is truly awesome! The more I learn about it the more awesome I think it is. I don't know a whole lot about science and much of this thread was lost on me, but even the little bit I do know amazes me. There is a woman in my Bible study group who is a science teacher. She keeps saying, "Chemistry is a miracle!" Yes, God can suspend the laws of nature, but that is not His usual way of working. However creation happened, it is still a miracle. Thank you for reminding us, Peter.

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