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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

03/13/2013 new
(Quote) William-607613 said: Jacqueline,We're here as Catholics trying to help one another to get through this wor...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



Jacqueline,


We're here as Catholics trying to help one another to get through this world. Nobody here thought this idea up and put it out there in the thread; I'm sure it's hard for everyone.

How do you reconcile your opinion with the Church's teaching on the subject?


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William,

I am not going to write much on this topic. Probably this is it. I just don't think that the issue is important enough to approach.

How do I reconcile my opinion with the church? I stated that I did not even open Bernard's hyperlink. Although I do attend a TLM and prefer it, the conservative Catholic slant of the mass is not the reason for preferring that mass. I am conservative, but that is politically.

It is my understanding that if one is ignorant of a particular Catholic thought, one cannot be responsible for behavior that is contrary to that thought. For example, think of all of the persons who have never been baptized, and know nothing of our faith. Are they necessarily left out of heaven due to their behavior done out of ignorance? No.

One is only fully responsible for sins committed with full knowledge of the faith, yet go against it anyway.

We are called to instruct each other regarding the faith, and help each other to avoid sin, but I believe that we are only required to obey an authorized Catholic source.
03/14/2013 new
www.youtube.com
03/14/2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: There is a great Community in Couer d' Alene, Idaho.My parents and two sisters and many nieces and n...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: There is a great Community in Couer d' Alene, Idaho.My parents and two sisters and many nieces and nephews are there.It is continually growing at a rapid pace.
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My family attends that parish in CDA and I'm a member of St. Stephens FSSP in Sacramento :D

03/14/2013 new
(Quote) John-324285 said: My family attends that parish in CDA and I'm a member of St. Stephens FSSP in Sacramento :D<...
(Quote) John-324285 said:



My family attends that parish in CDA and I'm a member of St. Stephens FSSP in Sacramento :D

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Sacramento? Now that sounds more like it! surfing
03/14/2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: It is my understanding that if one is ignorant of a particular Catholic thought, one cannot...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

It is my understanding that if one is ignorant of a particular Catholic thought, one cannot be responsible for behavior that is contrary to that thought. For example, think of all of the persons who have never been baptized, and know nothing of our faith. Are they necessarily left out of heaven due to their behavior done out of ignorance? No.

One is only fully responsible for sins committed with full knowledge of the faith, yet go against it anyway.

We are called to instruct each other regarding the faith, and help each other to avoid sin, but I believe that we are only required to obey an authorized Catholic source.
--hide--

You are dead wrong on several points.

As Catholics, we have a moral obligation to develop our knowledge of the Faith and properly form our consciences. When we neglect to do so when we have the ability and opportunity our ignorance becomes vincible, and we are indeed culpable for the sins we should have known of. When we intentionally avoid forming our conscience to avoid culpability for sins we commit a grave sin by that act alone and we are culpable for the sins.

While you are not required to take my word (or that of a random forum poster) on matters of morality, if we raise an issue you are not aware of, you do have a moral obligation to educate yourself on that point.

The important thing to keep in mind is that sin is an offense against God, not just a violation of one of a list of offenses. If we love God, we will do our best to learn what offends Him and to avoid doing those things. If we avoid educating ourselves about the Faith, which includes the nature of sin, especially after someone has flagged an issues that might be sinful, simply for our own convenience, what does that say about our love for God?

If your spouses' friend told you that doing X would hurt them, would you do it anyway just because you heard it from the friend and not from your spouse? Or would you at least check with your spouse?

03/14/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: It is my understanding that if one is igno...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Jacqueline-556574 said:

It is my understanding that if one is ignorant of a particular Catholic thought, one cannot be responsible for behavior that is contrary to that thought. For example, think of all of the persons who have never been baptized, and know nothing of our faith. Are they necessarily left out of heaven due to their behavior done out of ignorance? No.

One is only fully responsible for sins committed with full knowledge of the faith, yet go against it anyway.

We are called to instruct each other regarding the faith, and help each other to avoid sin, but I believe that we are only required to obey an authorized Catholic source.

You are dead wrong on several points.

As Catholics, we have a moral obligation to develop our knowledge of the Faith and properly form our consciences. When we neglect to do so when we have the ability and opportunity our ignorance becomes vincible, and we are indeed culpable for the sins we should have known of. When we intentionally avoid forming our conscience to avoid culpability for sins we commit a grave sin by that act alone and we are culpable for the sins.

While you are not required to take my word (or that of a random forum poster) on matters of morality, if we raise an issue you are not aware of, you do have a moral obligation to educate yourself on that point.

The important thing to keep in mind is that sin is an offense against God, not just a violation of one of a list of offenses. If we love God, we will do our best to learn what offends Him and to avoid doing those things. If we avoid educating ourselves about the Faith, which includes the nature of sin, especially after someone has flagged an issues that might be sinful, simply for our own convenience, what does that say about our love for God?

If your spouses' friend told you that doing X would hurt them, would you do it anyway just because you heard it from the friend and not from your spouse? Or would you at least check with your spouse?

--hide--

One other point:

With regard to the topic of discussion (intimate kissing), the forum posters are not presenting this on the basis of their own authority. The topic post provided a link to a very clearly expressed presentation by a Catholic priest, who in turn was basing his position on the writings of at least one saint and a decree of a Roman Catholic Pope. Are these not "official" sources?

03/14/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: One other point: With regard to the topic of discussion (intimate kissing), the fo...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

One other point:

With regard to the topic of discussion (intimate kissing), the forum posters are not presenting this on the basis of their own authority. The topic post provided a link to a very clearly expressed presentation by a Catholic priest, who in turn was basing his position on the writings of at least one saint and a decree of a Roman Catholic Pope. Are these not "official" sources?

--hide--


I appreciate your clarifications Jerry. It kinda scares me to think what else have I missed because I was away from the church for about 24 years. I liked that priest's presentation enough to take notes because I feel the need to catch up on so much.



03/14/2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: Probably you are correct, Jerry. I didn't even open the audio, and I don't care to....
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

Probably you are correct, Jerry. I didn't even open the audio, and I don't care to. Certainly I did not look to the logistics of the issue, and depended upon the intuitive.

Then perhaps I would have to change my 7/7 to a 6/7, as I would not necessarily follow every single statement issued by a pope, although I would follow most, or generally known Catholic thought.

Kissing or intimate kissing, that does not lead to adultery, is perhaps one of the only signs of affection and love we single Catholics have to rely upon between each other. Certainly remaining single is an unnatural enough state without further harsh restraints. Sin or not sin would depend upon the intent.
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There are several problems with the bolded statement:

(a) Intimate kissing IS a form of adultery, whether or not it proceeds to intercourse. [Here I use the term adultery in the general sense, which includes fornication.] ("But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28))

(b) The premise that intimate kissing is one of the only the only signs of affection single adults have to rely on is false. It may be tone of the most intense physical signs, but the point is that intimacy of that intensity is reserved for marriage.

(c) The premise that avoiding intimate affection while single is a harsh restriction is also false. When we develop inappropriate levels of intimacy with a person we are not married to there can be a wide variety of physical, emotional, and spiritual consequences. For example, consider the result of dying in a state of mortal sin. Is a kiss, no matter how passionate, worth losing eternity with God? How many marriages that eventually ended in divorce were entered into in large part because of lust fueled by intimate physical affection, including kissing? Or because the physical emotions stirred up by the intimate kissing resulted in us brushing off what should have been obvious red flags?

As for the intent: once the sexual feelings begin, if the kiss continues that is the intent.

03/14/2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: You are dead wrong on several points. As Catholics, we have a moral obligation to...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



You are dead wrong on several points.



As Catholics, we have a moral obligation to develop our knowledge of the Faith and properly form our consciences. When we neglect to do so when we have the ability and opportunity our ignorance becomes vincible, and we are indeed culpable for the sins we should have known of. When we intentionally avoid forming our conscience to avoid culpability for sins we commit a grave sin by that act alone and we are culpable for the sins.



While you are not required to take my word (or that of a random forum poster) on matters of morality, if we raise an issue you are not aware of, you do have a moral obligation to educate yourself on that point.



The important thing to keep in mind is that sin is an offense against God, not just a violation of one of a list of offenses. If we love God, we will do our best to learn what offends Him and to avoid doing those things. If we avoid educating ourselves about the Faith, which includes the nature of sin, especially after someone has flagged an issues that might be sinful, simply for our own convenience, what does that say about our love for God?



If your spouses' friend told you that doing X would hurt them, would you do it anyway just because you heard it from the friend and not from your spouse? Or would you at least check with your spouse?

--hide--


Jerry,

Really, I am not interested in arguing this point further, and I believe that I have already made that clear. I suppose that you could say that I brought this questionning upon myself, as I made a flippant comment here.

I consider myself a good practicing Catholic. I have not always been that, but I am now, and have been for quite some time. I feel that I am fairly well instructed in the faith, with few holes regarding important matters. I do read and study regarding the faith, but have more interest in certain areas of the faith, than other areas. I don't see that there is anything wrong with that. Persons who have a comprehensive knowledge regarding the faith are our religious.

My logic regarding issues of the faith not known to an individual, comes not from myself, but from a Catholic deacon. I am simply a lay Catholic, and that is all.

Usually, I am not in the habit of bringing to mind in others their faith weaknesses, but if I saw someone seemingly about to "walk into a hole," I would try to alert the individual.

Do you realize that you are insisting that I open a hyperlink and read it?
03/14/2013 new

Hi Jerry,
It says in The Bible ( I forget where,...long day) But I do know this "Jesus does not desire sacrifice, but obedience". If Our Lord and His commandments say I must do this...then I will...with all my heart, mind, soul & strength. I mayfall but will surely get up, again. What is more important than trying to please Jesus and becoming a saint on earth? For me, absolutely NOTHING. I really like your posts Jerry and am in complete agreement.


In His Holy Name,
elizabeth

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