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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Mar 14th 2013 new

(Quote) John-324285 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: There is a great Community in Couer d' Alene, Idaho...
(Quote) John-324285 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said: There is a great Community in Couer d' Alene, Idaho.My parents and two sisters and many nieces and nephews are there.It is continually growing at a rapid pace.

My family attends that parish in CDA and I'm a member of St. Stephens FSSP in Sacramento :D

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thumbsup

Mar 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi Jerry,It says in The Bible ( I forget where,...long day) But I do know this "Jesu...
(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said:

Hi Jerry,
It says in The Bible ( I forget where,...long day) But I do know this "Jesus does not desire sacrifice, but obedience". If Our Lord and His commandments say I must do this...then I will...with all my heart, mind, soul & strength. I mayfall but will surely get up, again. What is more important than trying to please Jesus and becoming a saint on earth? For me, absolutely NOTHING. I really like your posts Jerry and am in complete agreement.


In His Holy Name,
elizabeth

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Jesus is quotong Hosea 6:6 I believe, but I don't know where Jesus Himself says it?

Mar 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Brad-937504 said: My problem with your analysis is that you're suggesting this is a black and white doctrinal te...
(Quote) Brad-937504 said:

My problem with your analysis is that you're suggesting this is a black and white doctrinal teaching of the Church. It's just not that simple. For example, you concede that "non-intimate" kissing is unobjectionable. At what point does a kiss become "intimate." Is a kiss beyond a mere peck always intimate and, therefore a mortal sin? Is one lingering kiss per se a mortal sin? At what point do a series of non-intimate kisses add up to an intimate encounter and, therefore, a mortal sin? What about a man who proposes to a woman he deeply loves; the woman, who deeply loves the man, says yes; and in the joy of the moment they share a heartfelt kiss? Can yo say with certainty that they have committed a mortal sin?

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The moral issue is the sexual feelings evoked by the kissing. If the kissing is begun with the intent of evoking those feelings, that itself constitutes the sin. If the feelings occur unexpectedly, thee is no sin if the kiss is stopped as soon as this is recognized; to continue past that point is to provide the consent that is required for the sin.

Every Christian has the obligation to evangelize. I participate in these topics to share the knowledge God has allowed me to gain with others who wish to know, love, and serve Him better. I don't mind explaining as best I can (which may not always be adequate, but that's a failing on my part not an indictment of the teaching) when someone doesn't understand and is truly interested in learning.

Those who wish to reject the Church's moral teachings because they are inconvenient are free to do so -- nobody is going to force you to accept them. But please at least have the courtesy to stop reading rather than posing disingenuous questions or arguing personal opinion against documented doctrine.

If you do try to obstinately argue a position contrary to Church doctrine in a public forum such as this, be prepared to be met with the same responses. The intent isn't to force you to accept what you wish to reject, but to make it clear to those who may read the discussion at some later time that the error is just that.

Mar 14th 2013 new

(Quote) Jim-13836 said: I appreciate your clarifications Jerry. It kinda scares me to think what else have I missed because ...
(Quote) Jim-13836 said:

I appreciate your clarifications Jerry. It kinda scares me to think what else have I missed because I was away from the church for about 24 years. I liked that priest's presentation enough to take notes because I feel the need to catch up on so much.

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You're welcome, Jim. We're here to help each other learn. I know I have shared a number of things in these forums over the years that completely caught me off-guard, and I'm pretty sure Bernard will say the same.

Mar 14th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: The moral issue is the sexual feelings evoked by the kissing. If the kissing is begun with the i...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



The moral issue is the sexual feelings evoked by the kissing. If the kissing is begun with the intent of evoking those feelings, that itself constitutes the sin. If the feelings occur unexpectedly, thee is no sin if the kiss is stopped as soon as this is recognized; to continue past that point is to provide the consent that is required for the sin.



Every Christian has the obligation to evangelize. I participate in these topics to share the knowledge God has allowed me to gain with others who wish to know, love, and serve Him better. I don't mind explaining as best I can (which may not always be adequate, but that's a failing on my part not an indictment of the teaching) when someone doesn't understand and is truly interested in learning.



Those who wish to reject the Church's moral teachings because they are inconvenient are free to do so -- nobody is going to force you to accept them. But please at least have the courtesy to stop reading rather than posing disingenuous questions or arguing personal opinion against documented doctrine.



If you do try to obstinately argue a position contrary to Church doctrine in a public forum such as this, be prepared to be met with the same responses. The intent isn't to force you to accept what you wish to reject, but to make it clear to those who may read the discussion at some later time that the error is just that.



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so you do disagree with the basic premise posted on this thread. i agree with you ..and believe that kissing is not a mortal sin.
Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: Jerry, Really, I am not interested in arguing this point further, and I believe tha...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

Jerry,

Really, I am not interested in arguing this point further, and I believe that I have already made that clear. I suppose that you could say that I brought this questionning upon myself, as I made a flippant comment here.

I consider myself a good practicing Catholic. I have not always been that, but I am now, and have been for quite some time. I feel that I am fairly well instructed in the faith, with few holes regarding important matters. I do read and study regarding the faith, but have more interest in certain areas of the faith, than other areas. I don't see that there is anything wrong with that. Persons who have a comprehensive knowledge regarding the faith are our religious.

My logic regarding issues of the faith not known to an individual, comes not from myself, but from a Catholic deacon. I am simply a lay Catholic, and that is all.

Usually, I am not in the habit of bringing to mind in others their faith weaknesses, but if I saw someone seemingly about to "walk into a hole," I would try to alert the individual.

Do you realize that you are insisting that I open a hyperlink and read it?
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If you're not interested in arguing the point, then please feel free to stop at any time. Each time you make more morally incorrect statements someone is obligated to respond to them: not so much to correct you, since you've made your intentions clear, but to help prevent others from being mislead by them.

It's not my intention nor my place to judge your actions or whether you are a "good Catholic" (whatever that might be) or not. I am simply responding to statements you are making here regarding the objective nature of certain behaviors; whether these correspond to your behavior is not of concern to me.

It is certainly normal for people to have greater interest in some topics than in others; in fact, there is no way any person can be an expert on all matters of the faith. However, when it comes to forming out consciences, our moral obligation trumps our interests. That is to say, when we become aware that certain things we do may be immoral we have an obligation to resolve the questions to the best of our ability -- not just to the extent we are interested.

Using the present topic for exmple: if your situation is such that you will not be engaging in intimate kissing in the foreseeable future, you have no immediate obligation to pursue the related questions. However, if you fail to do so before you sin in this activityi n the future, ignorance will not be a defense: even less so if you intentionally avoided doing so because you did not want to learn the truth than if you simply forgot. Why? Because the former is a more conscious and willful act than the latter.

I have no way of knowing what the deacon told you. Perhaps he gave you a simplified explanation (it is a complex topic), perhaps you have not recalled all the details, or perhaps you just didn't explain what you know very well. What IC an say is what you wrote in the prior response is not accurate. For anyone wishing to understand the place of conscience in morality, I recommend Right and Reason: Ethics in Theory and Practice (2nd ed.), by Fr. Austin Fagothey, S.J. Be sure to get the 2nd edition, which is reprinted and sold by TAN, and perhaps others. Another author took over for later editions and I am told they are neither as clear nor as accurate as those authored by Fr. Fagothey.

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-112790 said: so you do disagree with the basic premise posted on this thread. i agree with you ..and believe th...
(Quote) Tom-112790 said:

so you do disagree with the basic premise posted on this thread. i agree with you ..and believe that kissing is not a mortal sin.
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Please refer me to a post in this topic where it was claimed that kissing (without qualification) is a mortal sin.

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Monica-730858 said: Sacramento? Now that sounds more like it!
(Quote) Monica-730858 said:

Sacramento? Now that sounds more like it!
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Well, except that it's in CA... eyebrow

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi Jerry,It says in The Bible ( I forget where,...long day) But I do know this "Jesu...
(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said:

Hi Jerry,
It says in The Bible ( I forget where,...long day) But I do know this "Jesus does not desire sacrifice, but obedience". If Our Lord and His commandments say I must do this...then I will...with all my heart, mind, soul & strength. I mayfall but will surely get up, again. What is more important than trying to please Jesus and becoming a saint on earth? For me, absolutely NOTHING. I really like your posts Jerry and am in complete agreement.


In His Holy Name,
elizabeth

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Thanks, Elizabeth. I'm glad you see the real message here. As you note, we are all sinners and will fail many, many times. What is important that we try, and that we repent when we fail. And we can't be obedient if we bury out heads in the sand and refuse to strive to understand what it is Christ is asking of us.

Mar 15th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Well, except that it's in CA...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



Well, except that it's in CA...

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Oh yeah, except for that!

laughing
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