Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Mar 15th 2013 new

Thank you for the replies to my post. It has provided some clarity that what we are referring to is “passionate kissing” which based on the discussion in this thread and the further clarifications, I suppose in more layman’s terms is probably just called an overheated make-out session. Yes, those are dangerous to one’s soul. do agree on that.

My personal weakness in this thread is not regarding chastity, but rather in bringing up old forum wars where many were wounded with intemperate remarks and posts. Those incidents did in fact happen before, and maybe I need to forget them.

As for not referring to theology in arguments, well all I will say on that is that there is precious little attention given to JPII’s Theology of the Body in this thread. I don’t feel the need to quote passages, people can look that up on their own.

The Catholic Church has existed for over 2000 years. Human social customs have indeed changed over time. The Church, in the sense that the
faithful constitute the Church, is a part of society. In pre-Cana a priest will ask if the two people seeking the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony are coming together freely of their own will. Although I do not know this for certain, I doubt that that was the case when most marriages were arranged.

I fully respect that some take the interpretation that all kisses period belong between married couples. I do agree that either you are married or you are not. Perhaps these near occasions of sin would not cause such great consternation if people just got married already and stopped flapping their gums in the forums of a Catholic dating site. I’ll take my own advice and stop flapping my gums now.

Mar 20th 2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: (Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: A romantic relationship without kissing? Too much...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

Quote:
Jacqueline-556574 said: A romantic relationship without kissing? Too much the cold fish for me.


Amen!

--hide--
Better to be cold and in the state of grace,than hot and in the state of mortal sin.flamed A clear choice. wink

Apr 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Angela-374523 said: Thank you for the replies to my post. It has provided some clarity that what we are referring to...
(Quote) Angela-374523 said:

Thank you for the replies to my post. It has provided some clarity that what we are referring to is “passionate kissing” which based on the discussion in this thread and the further clarifications, I suppose in more layman’s terms is probably just called an overheated make-out session. Yes, those are dangerous to one’s soul. do agree on that.

My personal weakness in this thread is not regarding chastity, but rather in bringing up old forum wars where many were wounded with intemperate remarks and posts. Those incidents did in fact happen before, and maybe I need to forget them.

As for not referring to theology in arguments, well all I will say on that is that there is precious little attention given to JPII’s Theology of the Body in this thread. I don’t feel the need to quote passages, people can look that up on their own.

The Catholic Church has existed for over 2000 years. Human social customs have indeed changed over time. The Church, in the sense that the
faithful constitute the Church, is a part of society. In pre-Cana a priest will ask if the two people seeking the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony are coming together freely of their own will. Although I do not know this for certain, I doubt that that was the case when most marriages were arranged.

I fully respect that some take the interpretation that all kisses period belong between married couples. I do agree that either you are married or you are not. Perhaps these near occasions of sin would not cause such great consternation if people just got married already and stopped flapping their gums in the forums of a Catholic dating site. I’ll take my own advice and stop flapping my gums now.

--hide--

Orthopraxie is not a moving target. Orthopraxie has to promote and protect orthodoxy. The Catholic Church is Catholic --- true always, for all places and all peoples. That is what the word means, entirely whole --- it is not lacking due to the change of the cultural norms of the world.

Natural law does not change. Passionate kissing is intended to stir the passions, and that stirs emotions that are for the procreative act when played out. Now, stiring these passions deliberately as a form of narcissistic pleasure outside of the marital committment is selfish and driven by the disorder of the passions, not by true love. True love is ordered to the good of their neighbor --- that is, the highest good, and as Catholics, we understand that the highest good is GOD. To fall into mortal sin is to lose the life of supernatural grace.

When I was very young, my family took a day trip to Niagara Falls. There we saw this young couple with platform heels, walking onto of a very narrow stone wall protecting visitors from the cliff that dropped to the side of the bottom part of the falls. I kept asking my parents, "Why are they doing this? " -- -never satisfied with, "I don't have any clue" or "I guess they know what they're doing." I couldn't believe that they knew what they were doing. I believed, even as a small child of about 9 or 10, that these people had no idea of the reality of death, particularly from the spiritual perspective ("Thou shall not kill." -- for instance, and the reality of hell for those who die in mortal sin). The longer they did this, they were never satisfied. They had to keep making it more daring, by dipping their legs down and turning around on their heels. Then they would laugh. There thoughts were blinded to the dangers by the euphoric mood they were developing from their arrogant, presumptuous acts. There actions were fool hardy, and I recall thinking that they were offending God.

Apr 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Review of Sins Against the 6th and 9th Commandments .Aprox 20 minutes.Great Sermon. http:/...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Review of Sins Against the 6th and 9th Commandments .Aprox 20 minutes.Great Sermon.

www.audiosancto.org

--hide--
I haven't heard a sermon like that for a bit over 50 years, tradgically. More like that throught the universal Church could only do good for laity and Priests and Religious. Thats the Second good link I've followed via your posts. Thank you Bernard.

Apr 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Emily-647155 said: OK, I understand the logic--I'm just not sure where we're getting into "mortal sin&q...
(Quote) Emily-647155 said:

OK, I understand the logic--I'm just not sure where we're getting into "mortal sin" territory. I mean, yes, papal opinion is one thing to take seriously, but then we also have things lie Pope Pius XII's opinion on modest dress. Unless it's something in the CCC that says "THIS IS A MORTAL SIN", I'm inclined to sort of be a bittt wary.


Now, I was engaged once. And yeah, we French kissed. We didn't do anything else. Nothing else happened. So this is one of those things where I sort of think people can have self control, yes? Now, obviously, this is the first time I've heard it's a mortal sin, but, again, I'm sort of placing this with the modesty "mortal sins" category.


Obviously, no sex. No heavy "petting", as my parents would call it. But French kissing? Really? I mean, come on guys, we have NO self control? We can't do that and let that be that?

--hide--

If you have a Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church and read the provisions in the Ten Commandments, complete with in depth analysis you will be informed as to the Churches Teachings. Catechisms prior to Vatican 11 are still valid. The CCC is based on the Catechisms that preceded it. They never go out of fashion. The Catechism of The Catholic Church will never give an opposing view to any other legitimate Catechism as truths can't change in substance. They can be expanded upon but not changing the meaning. That is why the Church encourages Catholics to read more Catholic literature that is in harmony with the Universal Churches Teachings and Proclaimed Dogmas. Take for instance the Dogma of The Immaculate Conception in relation to Jesus's mother Mary. It is not an optional to be rejected or accepted, tis view is in serious error. The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception is to be held by all Catholics as divine unassailable truth. To advocate otherwise is to put oneself outside of the Church and will exclude that person from receiving the Eucharist. In regards to the Eucharist it must be held by all Catholics, without exception, that it is the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If not held and a person professes belief otherwise they are not to partake of the Eucharist. It has nothing to do with personal rights or harsh teachings or victimisation. It is about respect and honor to Jesus Christ. All worship is honor God and not ourselves. It doesn't mean a hill of fly squat what we want. The fact is God is Creator, we are the Created. God has intrinsic rights by virtue of Him being an eternal being the author and maintainer of all life. God by His very nature has a claim to our worship and love that no other being has a right to. "Thou Shalt Not Have Strange god's before me!" No that means, No Tarot Cards, No Seances, No Astrology or any other "Ology" that tries to replace God. These practices are mortal sins as the take from God that which is His right. Satan got into his sticky sulphur pit by his snakey attitude, "I will not serve!" this is what our being says to God when we break His commandments and give inanimate objects or people worship or service that rightfully belongs to God The Almighty Creator. These things have not changed. I attend a Novus Ordo Catholic Mas so can't be accused of being a Traditionalist, which by the way has no stigma or being any less a Catholic. It is only used in a derisive manner by ultra modernists who want to mold God to their image and do whatever they like. These people caused the split. I would love the so called Traditionalists to come back in one large group and back us who have been battling these forces against God and Church. The things of God are there to build body and soul in preparation for an Eternity of bliss and delerious happiness. French Kissing is a style of kissing that parody's intercourse between husband and wife. People don't want to stop it because it feels good and in its right placing between husband and wife it leads to intercourse. A natural progression. This style of kiss is intimacy based. It is not just an ordinary kiss. You certainly wouldn't rock up to Grandad and stick your tongue halfway down his throat because you know deep down it has sexual connotations. Sin exists and we are not to put ourselves in a position that could lead to sin. You are not to know when the boy you were kissing went home and masturbated because of sexual tension. This is what the Church is meaning. We are not to be an occasion of sin to another. The other side is God will hold both accountable for the sin. One for creating the occasion of sin and the other for the commission of an act considered to be gravely disordered. So there it is warts and all. If you are Catholic you must abide by these teachings. If not leave rather than desecrate the Eucharist by receiving Communion sacrilegiously

Apr 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Sheila-371804 said: Thank you Emily, I'm grateful you understood my point. A MORTAL SIN for kissing or holding h...
(Quote) Sheila-371804 said:

Thank you Emily, I'm grateful you understood my point. A MORTAL SIN for kissing or holding hands with your significant other. It is incomprehensible to me, and contrary to what I was taught by our Parish Priest.

--hide--

If what your Parish Priest says doesn't gel with the Catechism and Church Tradition then you are both wrong and if the criteria is serious enough you will have adjoining briquettes to sit on combined with a sulphur spa. Giving incorrect advice to another is also a serious matter Church teaching not mine. Your Parish Priest is not Pope, is not Bishop and only has Faculties granted to celebrate mass at the Bishops behest. So be very careful whom you follow, most people like the idea of following someone who will let them do what they like. Being a responsible servant of God is a lot harder than that. You only have to think about Good Friday to imagine a sample of what true sacrificing for others is all about. Christ says pick up thy Cross and follow me! He doesn't say pick up your double scotch and the man at table 6 and have a heavy passionate session together. Being a Catholic carries responsibilities. We all have an account to make of what we have done in life to further Gods Kingdom. God isn't some boss in a factory. God is the Almighty Creator and He will not be mocked. Take a trip to Sodom and Gommorrah and you will see what he thinks of sins of fornication and homosexuality. These people refused to obey and said they would do things their way. I think they will be fuming for an Eternity unfortunately. But Ultimately they chose the path even though they were warned of the dangers.

Apr 15th 2013 new

Sin and kissing. What a combination.

How about this -

Everybody that is on this site has, by the fact that they are on this site, professed that they desire marriage. This is a good thing, so that is ok. For whatever reason, society, changing swimsuits, polluted water, bad air or aspirin it is difficult to achieve something called a "Sacramental Marriage". The solution that God provides for us to deal with the temptation of sex is that "Sacramental Marriage". I think St Paul addresses that in his writings and I am pretty sure it is in Genesis. So fine. Now comes the hard part.

Getting married.

The Church has teachings that address marriage. In general, the teaching of the Church has changed significantly on marriage over the centuries. If you don't think so, well too bad, but it is true. You have to look no further than the current state of marriage annulments. Used to be the Church didn't do that much. The mission of the Church is to, through its teachings, to help Catholics lead Holy lives, pleasing to God.

So, for all of you, consider this. Ask, if you are not married and want to be why aren't you? If you really believe that God wants you to be married then if what you've been doing for the last 10 years hasn't worked better change. And God help you if what you are professing to be right doesn't work. There really are things that work in dating, and there really are things that don't. I don't think kissing has all that much to do with it, one way or the other.

But it would be interesting to find out how many happily married Catholic couples passionately kissed before they were married. Then figure out how many happily married Catholic couples never passionately kissed before marriage. If the numbers worked out to 99.99999% and 0.0000000000000001% then I'd say any teaching to not kiss passionately prior to marriage was being ignored. Now do you really want to state that 99.9999999% of happily married Catholic couples committed a mortal sin prior to their marriage and are going to hell because they have not, and probably never will, ask for forgiveness?

You are confronted with the sad choice. Follow the idea that you do not passionately kiss someone prior to marriage and hope you are in that 0.0000000000001% but live out your life constantly being tempted to sexual sin, or kiss the girl, get married and deal with your sexual desires in the manner that God intended. The choice is perhaps one small sin followed by a life of Grace, or a lifetime of not doing as God has commanded, getting married.

Ultimately, if you sin, or not, is up to you. You are required to make an informed, prayerful choice. I can not understand how adultery could ever by ok. I can think of ways in which killing is not sinful. But, that is my choice. Others may feel differently. That is between you and God, only.

Apr 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said: But it would be interesting to find out how many happily married Catholic couples passionately kissed...
(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said: But it would be interesting to find out how many happily married Catholic couples passionately kissed before they were married. Then figure out how many happily married Catholic couples never passionately kissed before marriage. If the numbers worked out to 99.99999% and 0.0000000000000001% then I'd say any teaching to not kiss passionately prior to marriage was being ignored. Now do you really want to state that 99.9999999% of happily married Catholic couples committed a mortal sin prior to their marriage and are going to hell because they have not, and probably never will, ask for forgiveness?
--hide--

Bernard said:No one is interested in guessing who committed Mortal sin.BTW,it is not a Mortal sin if they were not aware of it.However,if it led those people who were unaware into sins of impurity after the kiss,then they would surely be aware of that sin.Especially if it happened time and time again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]Lawrence-943343 said: You are confronted with the sad choice. Follow the idea that you do not passionately kiss someone prior to marriage and hope you are in that 0.0000000000001% but live out your life constantly being tempted to sexual sin, or kiss the girl, get married and deal with your sexual desires in the manner that God intended. The choice is perhaps one small sin followed by a life of Grace, or a lifetime of not doing as God has commanded, getting married.[quote]

Bernard said:How do you figure that kissing the girl is going to take away your sexual desires?Who says that you can't not kiss the girl, get married and be happy.I am not following your logic.

Apr 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Monica-730858 said: (Quote) Emily-647155 said: OK, I can't listen to the aud...
(Quote) Monica-730858 said:

Quote:
Emily-647155 said:


OK, I can't listen to the audio, because my system is crap, but where in the world is french kissing a mortal sin?! Like, is there a CCC site I've missed here? Or is this in the "women who wear pants are going to Hell" school of thought?


Oh I wish you had good audio because I will fail to do him justice...he mentions that Pope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it's only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sake of the pleasure of the kiss even if there is no danger of consent to go further. St. Alphonsus said the same, that it's a mortal sin. The idea is that unmarried people don't have the right to stir up these kinds of passions because they are so closely related to the creative powers. Most unmarried people who engage in passionate kissing probably don't realize that it's grave matter and so they are probably not committing mortal sin. But if they do realize it and intentionally do so then it's mortal sin.

--hide--


Interesting topic. I will have to listen to the talk when I have time..

Apr 15th 2013 new

Kissing a girl is not going to take away your sexual desires. If anything it will make them stronger. God gave you those desires, they are not bad.

You can not kiss the girl, get married and live happily ever after. Good luck. Maybe this is the right place to be to find a woman that will say yes when you ask her to marry you.

God wants men and women to marry. In the Judeo-Christian tradition it has always been a shameful thing if a man, or woman were unmarried, or divorced, until maybe now. But then now so many things are not as shameful as they used to be. (Probably a bad thing.) Hopefully men and women do not "take away" their sexual desires, but rejoice in them, in the context of a Holy, Sacramental Marriage.

But, in most cases, when people achieve a Holy Sacramental Marriage there was some serious kissing going on before the wedding. Probably more than that, but I see no reason to speculate. I think it is unreasonable to date the woman you are intending to marry and not have thoughts of having sex with her, if you kiss her or not. It is wrong, at this time, in this country, to have sex with her before your wedding. That has not always been true. Traditions concerning marriage have changed through the centuries.

Personally, I believe that there is no sexual sin in dating as long as the boundries established by the couple are respected. It is difficult to state that sex proir to marriage is sinful, as much as people would like to, because at the time of Jesus, for example, a couple was betrothed by their parents. This betrothal may have happened when the child was born. As the child grew the child was told who they were betrothed to. When the betrothed couple, or perhaps their family, decided it was time for a wedding they would get married. They could get married simply by moving in together without the wedding. It was acceptable to simply move in together if you were bethrothed. Can you think of a fairly well known couple that simply moved in together? Do you know when this custom of getting married stopped?

Anyway, thoughts are temptations, not sins. Jesus had thoughts of not being crucified. That is written in the Bible. But Catholic teaching is pretty strong on the point that Jesus never sinned. Therefore, a thought cannot be sinful. You may think about whatever you wish to think about but you may not act on it if it would be sinful. And yes, somethings are best not to think about.

Another example about how thinking has changed concerning marriage concerns how may wives a man can have. In the early Church there were cases of men converting to Christianity and bringing their wives along. I wonder what would happen today if a man, with several wives, decided to become a Catholic. I really doubt if the Church would demand that he divorce his wives.

But, back to the topic at hand, you manage your sexual desires by getting married and having a "Sacramental Marriage". If you choose to behave in a way that prevents you from marrying then you are sinning. It is more common for people to choose to have sex with many people and never get married. It is obvious that is sinful. I have known people that, even in a marriage, are not interested in affection, or sex. A lack of normal healthy affection is just as disordered as promiscuity.

So, if you want to get married and you feel that your prospects are not very good, or things aren't working I suggest you talk to a friend that has what you want. Ask them how they got what they have. Don't be down on yourself, don't think you are not attractive, or not somehow worthy. But, sometimes a thing that works for one person does not work for someone else. So, you sometimes need to search for awhile, and sometimes growth is required. And yes, if you listen to a priest and follow what he tells you and it works great. If it doesn't work you should talk to him about it. He could be wrong, or his advice may not work for you.

Posts 151 - 160 of 163