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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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03/07/2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: I think the best advice I got from a priest (and yes, an FSSP priest) on the subject that a man...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

I think the best advice I got from a priest (and yes, an FSSP priest) on the subject that a man and woman should behave as brother and sister during a courtship.

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Excellent advice

03/07/2013 new
(Quote) William-607613 said: I read of an incident where a priest was explaining this teaching to a group of Catholic teenagers an...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



I read of an incident where a priest was explaining this teaching to a group of Catholic teenagers and one young man stood up and explained that he could see nothing wrong with French-kissing his girlfriend, as his passions were simply not stirred up when he did so. "Well," the priest said, "then you're doing it wrong."

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I think what's missing in the modern courtship is the idea that a man and a woman have to first be friends before they can be spouses. Pope Benedict XVI had recently said as much. Unfortunately, marriage in the post-sexual revolution stage of history has left an awful lot of carnage in its wake, and those who would ignore the teaching on this subject really have no success models to show us. I think the best advice I got from a priest (and yes, an FSSP priest) on the subject that a man and woman should behave as brother and sister during a courtship.

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That story made me laugh, love that! laughing Excellent points William. It's a shame that there aren't more courtships happening in the true sense of the word. Catholics seem to view dating as the secular world does these days. I always think I would have loved to have lived in a time when you met someone at the social after Mass, had a brief courtship and then got married. But, God saw fit to place me in this time for a reason so who am I to question that? I just think we all need to focus on trying to live our vocations rather than finding people to go on dates with. Should it really take two years of being engaged before you can decide if this person would make a good spouse and parent to future children?
03/07/2013 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: So it's best to remain in different states and never come into contact? Date like Abelard and...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

So it's best to remain in different states and never come into contact? Date like Abelard and Heloise dated?

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I must have missed this part of the homily. At what time mark was this statement, or one suggesting same, made?

03/07/2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: An excellent post, Monica! It completely understandable that you were shocked whe...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



An excellent post, Monica!



It completely understandable that you were shocked when you first hear the message: it's certainly not one most people have heard before, and it is diametrically opposed to the culture most of us have grown up in and been formed by. It's certainly not an easy thing to accept -- which is a pretty good indication it is correct ("Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" Matt. 7:13-14).



The path you took is a perfect example of how must approach these situations if we are to develop spiritually; if we rely on our emotional reactions, as many do, we are allowing ourselves to be lead astray by those who wish nothing more than to claim our souls as trophies, as if they provide any consolation in their own eternal damnation.



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Thank you Jerry!

I really liked the reminder that we are to take the narrow way. Christ never said it would be easy but I have found that there's nothing I love more than the truth. And looking back on my former life even with its so called pleasures it was empty in comparison.

It's very true what you say about developing spiritually. I used to get frustrated at not having all of the answers immediately, but God reveals things in time and when we are ready and He creates in us a hunger to learn more and more if we are focused on Him and trying to seek, recognize and do His will and not our own.
03/07/2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: I read of an incident where a priest was explaining this teaching to a group of Catholic teenag...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

I read of an incident where a priest was explaining this teaching to a group of Catholic teenagers and one young man stood up and explained that he could see nothing wrong with French-kissing his girlfriend, as his passions were simply not stirred up when he did so. "Well," the priest said, "then you're doing it wrong."

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laughing laughing laughing

03/07/2013 new

(Quote) Emily-647155 said: (author's comments preceded by ">")
(Quote) Emily-647155 said:

(author's comments preceded by ">")

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> but then we also have things lie Pope Pius XII's opinion on modest dress.

What about it?

> Unless it's something in the CCC that says "THIS IS A MORTAL SIN", I'm inclined to sort of be a bittt wary.

It is very important to understand that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not a complete expression of moral theology: there are many moral teachings of the Church the Catechism is silent on.

> Now, I was engaged once. And yeah, we French kissed. We didn't do anything else. Nothing else happened. So this is one of those things where I sort of think people can have self control, yes? Now, obviously, this is the first time I've heard it's a mortal sin, but, again, I'm sort of placing this with the modesty "mortal sins" category.

As the priest explained in the homily, the grave sin arises from the passions aroused by the kiss, not what other acts the passions lead to. That you were able to exercise self-control is of no consequence: the fact that you willfully placed yourself in the circumstances where you needed to exercise that self-control is.

> Obviously, no sex. No heavy "petting", as my parents would call it. But French kissing? Really? I mean, come on guys, we have NO self control? We can't do that and let that be that?

You've got it!

03/07/2013 new

(Quote) Sheila-371804 said: Greeting's Bernard, I have a question regarding your thread topic. It seems to me if ...
(Quote) Sheila-371804 said:

Greeting's Bernard,

I have a question regarding your thread topic. It seems to me if you want to avoid any feelings of lust, and temptation, theoretically you should ideally refrain from listening to suggestive love songs with lyrics such as, for example, like the one's you posted on my recent thread ("Baby it's cold outside Favorite Cuddling Song " ) which as you know included lyrics such as..."Something in the way she moves".

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Good point.Here is a replacement song.I'm a work in progress too! Thanks for the suggestion Sheila.

What A Wonder You Are - Phil Keaggy www.youtube.com

03/07/2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: (Quote) Sheila-371804 said: Greeting's Bernard, I have a questi...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Quote:
Sheila-371804 said:

Greeting's Bernard,

I have a question regarding your thread topic. It seems to me if you want to avoid any feelings of lust, and temptation, theoretically you should ideally refrain from listening to suggestive love songs with lyrics such as, for example, like the one's you posted on my recent thread ("Baby it's cold outside Favorite Cuddling Song " ) which as you know included lyrics such as..."Something in the way she moves".


Good point.Here is a replacement song.I'm a work in progress too! Thanks for the suggestion Sheila.

What A Wonder You Are - Phil Keaggy www.youtube.com

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Phil Keaggy - Our Lives www.youtube.com

03/07/2013 new

(Quote) Emily-647155 said: OK, I understand the logic--I'm just not sure where we're getting into "mortal sin&q...
(Quote) Emily-647155 said:

OK, I understand the logic--I'm just not sure where we're getting into "mortal sin" territory. I mean, yes, papal opinion is one thing to take seriously, but then we also have things lie Pope Pius XII's opinion on modest dress. Unless it's something in the CCC that says "THIS IS A MORTAL SIN", I'm inclined to sort of be a bittt wary.

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CCC can't possibly list each and every sin out there and classify each as mortal/venial. My understanding is that all sexual sins/sins of the flesh are by default grave matter (and mortal sins when the other requirements for mortal sins are met). So this is why passionate kissing is a mortal sin - it falls under the sexual sins category.

CCC is a great resource to learn about our faith, but it's not the only resource out there. If that were true, there would be no need for papal encyclicals and other such works that teach us about the various aspects of our faith. So if you truly want to understand this topic, you may want to read other materials, with an open mind. Theology of the Body is a great place to start. For a super-easy fun to read book based on TOB principles, try Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. That little book changed my life. I wish I read it before I got married, not after.

03/07/2013 new

Hi Sheila,

While all validly ordained priests are able to administer valid sacraments, not 100% of priests out there are correct when giving advice about what constitutes grave sin (this is very unfortunate, but true). I've been told by a priest once that sex before marriage wasn't a sin I had to worry about because I ended up marrying the guy. I was also told once that it was ok to temporarily use contraception in my circumstance while I was being screened for cervical cancer (it turned out to be a false alarm). The priest's logic was that it would be dangerous to get pregnant if I end up having to take radiation should my diagnosis comes up positive. It doesn't take a moral theologian to know that I was not given accurate Church teachings by either of these priests. I can't judge if your priest is right or wrong - I don't even know what exactly he said and in what context - but I just wanted to point out that a priest can be in error too sometimes.

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