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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Emily-647155 said: OK, I can't listen to the audio, because my system is crap, but where in the world is...
(Quote) Emily-647155 said:

OK, I can't listen to the audio, because my system is crap, but where in the world is french kissing a mortal sin?! Like, is there a CCC site I've missed here? Or is this in the "women who wear pants are going to Hell" school of thought?

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Everywhere.

Mar 8th 2013 new

Jerry, I'm going to comment on this subject for the last time for clarity to gain some closure on this issue. I will then refrain from further comment's on this subject. First of all the fact is Bernard sent the link to the tapes to me. I didn't solicit any advice on the issue. Secondly I did listen to the sermon entitled,The Commandments 6 and 9 "Kissing A Vocation Goodbye" which essentially states the obligation of the individual to observe Commandments 6 and 9 to ensure one preserves their obligation through Chastity in order to ensure they will be able to carry out whatever vocation they are called upon in this life to fulfill. I shall refrain from my thoughts regarding the validity and argument of the Sermon's content out of respect for the Priest's and his interpretation of Commandment's 6 and 9. I did notice the absence of the identity of the Priest's experience, perhaps that is why few people were aware of this revelation.

Mar 8th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: If you get to the parish church, please tell Fr. McCambridge I said hello (he was our associate ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



If you get to the parish church, please tell Fr. McCambridge I said hello (he was our associate padtor several years ago).



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Will do! I was there a couple of weekends ago for a High Mass and he was excellent. I also enjoy Fr. Fromageot. Haven't heard back about the job but today is the day! Otherwise I'm thinking Rapid City as they have a Fraternity parish as well and it's beautiful there.

Thanks for all of your insight and wisdom in this thread. I really appreciate that you are patient and keep your arguments non-personal and non-emotion based. I'm learning a lot from you and Bernard.
Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Sheila-371804 said: Jerry, I'm going to comment on this subject for the last time for clarity to gain some closure ...
(Quote) Sheila-371804 said:

Jerry, I'm going to comment on this subject for the last time for clarity to gain some closure on this issue. I will then refrain from further comment's on this subject. First of all the fact is Bernard sent the link to the tapes to me. I didn't solicit any advice on the issue. Secondly I did listen to the sermon entitled,The Commandments 6 and 9 "Kissing A Vocation Goodbye" which essentially states the obligation of the individual to observe Commandments 6 and 9 to ensure one preserves their obligation through Chastity in order to ensure they will be able to carry out whatever vocation they are called upon in this life to fulfill. I shall refrain from my thoughts regarding the validity and argument of the Sermon's content out of respect for the Priest's and his interpretation of Commandment's 6 and 9. I did notice the absence of the identity of the Priest's experience, perhaps that is why few people were aware of this revelation.

--hide--

With regard to the topic of this discussion thread (intimate kissing), the priest was providing more than his personal interpretation: he cited a declaration by Pope Alexander VII and Saint Alphonsus Liguori, a doctor of the Church:

(quoting tape)

Pope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arising from the kiss, even if there is no danger of further consent or going any farther. [...] Saint Alphonsus (the doctor of moral theology of the universal Church) explains, "the reason is that any delight taken in stirring up appetites that surround the creative power is a movement toward the marital act."

(9:43) All pleasure outside of marriage that is associated with the creative power that is directly willed or desired, intentionally procured or permitted, is a mortal sin for the unmarried.

(end quote)

Pope Alexander VI condemned the following in his decree of 18 March 1666:

"It is a probable opinion which states that a kiss is only venial when performed for the sake of the carnal or sensible delight which arises from the kiss, if danger of further consent or pollution is excluded."

(Emphasis mine, to answer the typical rejoinder regarding self-control. In moral theology, 'pollution' refers to an ejaculation outside the conjugal act.)

 

Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: With regard to the topic of this discussion thread (intimate kissing), the priest was pro...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

With regard to the topic of this discussion thread (intimate kissing), the priest was providing more than his personal interpretation: he cited a declaration by Pope Alexander VII and Saint Alphonsus Liguori, a doctor of the Church:

(quoting tape)

Pope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arising from the kiss, even if there is no danger of further consent or going any farther. [...] Saint Alphonsus (the doctor of moral theology of the universal Church) explains, "the reason is that any delight taken in stirring up appetites that surround the creative power is a movement toward the marital act."

(9:43) All pleasure outside of marriage that is associated with the creative power that is directly willed or desired, intentionally procured or permitted, is a mortal sin for the unmarried.

(end quote)

Pope Alexander VI condemned the following in his decree of 18 March 1666:

"It is a probable opinion which states that a kiss is only venial when performed for the sake of the carnal or sensible delight which arises from the kiss, if danger of further consent or pollution is excluded."

(Emphasis mine, to answer the typical rejoinder regarding self-control. In moral theology, 'pollution' refers to an ejaculation outside the conjugal act.)

--hide--


Thank you Jerry for your clarifications. I feel stupid that I'd never learned this before. Wow. Now the scary part: how much more have I not been taught??

Mar 8th 2013 new

I'm thankful that this topic has been brought up. I'm also thankful that it's been pointed out that many clergy give out wrong information. I have to think of the uproar that would take place if the leaders of the Church would inform all of us on many teachings, especially to those of us who are divorced and have not yet received our decree of nulity. Sadly, many people don't want to hear that they ARE NOT to be dating regardless of what the church teaches. I feel there needs to be a lot of education for all of us. Praying Praying Praying

Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Jim-13836 said: Thank you Jerry for your clarifications. I feel stupid that I'd never learned this before. W...
(Quote) Jim-13836 said:


Thank you Jerry for your clarifications. I feel stupid that I'd never learned this before. Wow. Now the scary part: how much more have I not been taught??

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You're welcome, Jim. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and probably learned more about folk music and making felt banners than I did about the Faith. Being approximately the same age, I wouldn't be surprised if your experience was similar. Sadly, you will find there is much we were not taught. It's not a mater of being stupid -- we weren't responsible for making the lesson plans.

A good place to start learning is the Baltimore Catechism. It is in a Q&A format and may seem rather simple at first, but you'll be surprised at how much of the really basic stuff we were never taught.

You can find the Baltimore Catechism, as well as the catechisms of Trent, Aquinas, Pius X, and the CCC at the following site:

www.cin.org

If you prefer reading books, there are reprints of all of these available. If you consider ordering a printed copy of the Baltimore Catechism, let me know first so I can explain the book numbering system.

Mar 8th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: You're welcome, Jim. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and probably learned more abou...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



You're welcome, Jim. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and probably learned more about folk music and making felt banners than I did about the Faith. Being approximately the same age, I wouldn't be surprised if your experience was similar. Sadly, you will find there is much we were not taught. It's not a mater of being stupid -- we weren't responsible for making the lesson plans.



A good place to start learning is the Baltimore Catechism. It is in a Q&A format and may seem rather simple at first, but you'll be surprised at how much of the really basic stuff we were never taught.



You can find the Baltimore Catechism, as well as the catechisms of Trent, Aquinas, Pius X, and the CCC at the following site:



www.cin.org



If you prefer reading books, there are reprints of all of these available. If you consider ordering a printed copy of the Baltimore Catechism, let me know first so I can explain the book numbering system.



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What a cool link! Thanks for posting this, it's great to have all of these in one place.
Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: You're welcome, Jim. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and probably learned mor...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

You're welcome, Jim. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and probably learned more about folk music and making felt banners than I did about the Faith. Being approximately the same age, I wouldn't be surprised if your experience was similar. Sadly, you will find there is much we were not taught. It's not a mater of being stupid -- we weren't responsible for making the lesson plans.

A good place to start learning is the Baltimore Catechism. It is in a Q&A format and may seem rather simple at first, but you'll be surprised at how much of the really basic stuff we were never taught.

You can find the Baltimore Catechism, as well as the catechisms of Trent, Aquinas, Pius X, and the CCC at the following site:

www.cin.org

If you prefer reading books, there are reprints of all of these available. If you consider ordering a printed copy of the Baltimore Catechism, let me knowfirst so I can explain the book numbering system.

--hide--


Actually the only thing I know about folk music is Peter, Paul and Mary and Hank Williams Sr. if he qualifies. And I know nothing about making felt banners! Seriously thanks for the links. I will check them out. Thank you again.

Mar 8th 2013 new

(Quote) Sheila-371804 said: Jerry, I'm going to comment on this subject for the last time for clarity to gain some closu...
(Quote) Sheila-371804 said:

Jerry, I'm going to comment on this subject for the last time for clarity to gain some closure on this issue. I will then refrain from further comment's on this subject. First of all the fact is Bernard sent the link to the tapes to me. I didn't solicit any advice on the issue. Secondly I did listen to the sermon entitled,The Commandments 6 and 9 "Kissing A Vocation Goodbye" which essentially states the obligation of the individual to observe Commandments 6 and 9 to ensure one preserves their obligation through Chastity in order to ensure they will be able to carry out whatever vocation they are called upon in this life to fulfill. I shall refrain from my thoughts regarding the validity and argument of the Sermon's content out of respect for the Priest's and his interpretation of Commandment's 6 and 9. I did notice the absence of the identity of the Priest's experience, perhaps that is why few people were aware of this revelation.

--hide--
I sent a link to you to my Thread on Lenten Missions.Not this Thread,or this Link. I find it nowhere in my message archives to you.You did participate in this conversation freely.You act as though you are personally being forced to accept it Sheila.As far as the Priest goes,he has had very good Seminary training in Classical Theology and Scholastic Philosophy.St.Thomas Aquinas etc.The site asks not to identify the Priests,because they are busy working in their assigned job with their regular duties, and don't have time to respond to mail from around the globe.

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